The Lack Of Vintage Collectors Is Depressing Rant

[1967ers]

I collect Blue Jackets stuff almost exclusively and I think that's only thing that keeps me from massively collecting vintage is the lack of personal appeal. I don't have a dog in the race, per say.

That's sort of where I'm at with baseball, since of the stuff I'm working on now is pre-'77. I'm finding, though, that without my team in the set I don't really have to worry about divided loyalties. I'm a free agent. It's OK to get a Yankee and find it interesting. :)

[cbjhockey61]

most people dont collect vintage because they dont know who the players are or dont care.

I dont collect vintage because I never saw any of those guys play and watching them play is my connection with them and with picking up their cards...if that makes sense.

[waf]

Been slowly filling my OPC 70's sets.


I am always Leary when making vintage trades as the cards very in condition from set to set and also from card to card within the sets..

The grade of cards in a lot of cases are that traders opinion and can also very from trader to trader.

Scared I may sell myself short or worse yet have a trader think i over graded cards and wind up with a negative feedback. hasn't happened yet but is always in the back of my mind.

Generally every now and then i get the itch to go through them ( I have around 2500 for trade) and will make a trade or 2 to help set collectors or team collectors out. CSSpots was the last trade i did helping him with his King cards.

So yes i collect vintage but take my time doing it after all it was to be a retirement project/hobby and I am still years away from it.

[wreckless]

speaking of which, if anyone has any lots of 61-62 parkies for sale or trade, let me know!

[4ant4]

I have to laugh when I hear roy.the.greatest talk about how people do not pay for vintage. A Bobby Orr sticker (yes I said sticker) from 1971 sold for $614 recently. Not even a gem mint sticker, it was only graded a 7 - http://cgi.ebay.com/1971-Post-Shooters-BOBBY-ORR-blue-psa-7-/230516000050?pt=US_Hockey_Trading_Cards&hash=item3 5abd30532

A Bobby Orr RC graded a 2 by KSA, which really equates to a 1 or 1.5 from PSA or BVG sold for $575 recently. That's $575 for a card that isn't even considered good enough to be set filler, but someone paid that much just to own a copy of the card - http://cgi.ebay.com/1966-67-TOPPS-HOCKEY-CARD-BOBBY-ORR-35-RC-/120614021719?pt=US_Hockey_Trading_Cards&hash=item1 c1527ea57

5 of the last 6 highest selling Gretzky cards the last two weeks are rookies, all of them $800 plus.

5 of the last 6 highest selling Beliveau cards the last two weeks are vintage singles, with one of them going for $460. A card that "books" at $240 at best with the multiplier for grade, sells for double the value. The standard book value on the card is $80, but yeah, no one pays for quality vintage anymore - http://cgi.ebay.com/1962-parkhurst-39-Jean-Beliveau-psa-10-tough-/300464448823?pt=US_Hockey_Trading_Cards&hash=item4 5f513a537

You want to see over produced cards, how about 1970's baseball. Nope, this isn't a Babe Ruth or Mickey Mantle card selling for $990, it's a 1978 Eddie Murray - http://cgi.ebay.com/1978-TOPPS-EDDIE-MURRAY-BVG-9-5-SUPER-RARE-BGS-SUBS-GEM-/190436208481?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item2c56e1ef61

How about massively over produced hockey. 80/81 OPC anyone? $1300 for a Mark Messier card? http://cgi.ebay.com/1980-81-O-PEE-CHEE-OPC-MARK-MESSIER-RC-BGS-9-5-GEM-MINT-/250636713878?pt=US_Hockey_Trading_Cards&hash=item3 a5b1cbf96


I could go on and on, but I hope the point was made. Vintage hockey cards of high grade always have, and always will outsell any modern cards when you compare "book value" to actual sales. Sure, there are people who are willing to spend $10K on a modern card with a fake or photo shoot shield and an auto penned signature, but those cards will be worth a fraction of what they paid for them 10 years from now. There is no better value in hockey then high grade vintage. They are not making any more of it, and if you buy a card for $1000 today, 10 years from now you will be able to sell it for more then you paid. Can you really say that about any modern cards? There is no way The Cup rookies of Ovechkin or Crosby will book, or sell for what they do now in 10 years. Just look at all the people who soaked their money into Andrew Raycroft rookies when he went to Toronto, where are they now? Or the Carey Price phenomena in Montreal, those Cup RC buyers took a bath pn those and will never recover. But, if they spent the same money on true high grade vintage singles, they would have full value still and could get their money back if they decided to sell.

[v3rs3]

Can you really say that about any modern cards? There is no way The Cup rookies of Ovechkin or Crosby will book, or sell for what they do now in 10 years.

I wouldn't go that far. I completely agree with you other than that statement. Those guys are stars just like all the other vintage stars that sell for a lot of money. I believe they go up in value or at least stay the same value (b/c it's already very high) just b/c the simple fact that they are superstars and it'll be an extremely rare card to own. They will be very high sellers in about 30 years when they are considered vintage.

[capt55]

I have lots of vintage for trade or sale, but now I go by Beckett which list the different multipliers for condition etc, so no one wants Vintage, vintage never goes down, alot of it never goes up, but todays card are like the stock market, one month there up and one month there down.

[SkyFire47]

I could go on and on, but I hope the point was made. Vintage hockey cards of high grade always have, and always will outsell any modern cards when you compare "book value" to actual sales. Sure, there are people who are willing to spend $10K on a modern card with a fake or photo shoot shield and an auto penned signature, but those cards will be worth a fraction of what they paid for them 10 years from now. There is no better value in hockey then high grade vintage. They are not making any more of it, and if you buy a card for $1000 today, 10 years from now you will be able to sell it for more then you paid. Can you really say that about any modern cards? There is no way The Cup rookies of Ovechkin or Crosby will book, or sell for what they do now in 10 years. Just look at all the people who soaked their money into Andrew Raycroft rookies when he went to Toronto, where are they now? Or the Carey Price phenomena in Montreal, those Cup RC buyers took a bath pn those and will never recover. But, if they spent the same money on true high grade vintage singles, they would have full value still and could get their money back if they decided to sell.

while i agree with some of your statements, generalizing it isn't right either. at some point, these cards will be vintage. say what you will but even some 90s inserts will already fetch crazy coin these days. saying terms like "sticker auto" or "fake photo shoot" to cheapen the feel of today's cards to support your take on the matter doesn't seem completely right either when people are buying vintage cards which are in crap condition. autos and memorabilia are a relatively new phenomenon so there's really no telling how people will react to it 50 years from now.

and of all the cards to name that won't hold their value you choose possibly the 2 MOST likely to hold their value?

[roy.the.greatest]

Just look at all the people who soaked their money into Andrew Raycroft rookies when he went to Toronto, where are they now? Or the Carey Price phenomena in Montreal, those Cup RC buyers took a bath pn those and will never recover. But, if they spent the same money on true high grade vintage singles, they would have full value still and could get their money back if they decided to sell.

Everything is based on demand, especially on a long term run. People won't pay for Adam Oates but they will pay for Mario Lemieux. People won't pay for Andrew Raycroft but they will pay for Martin Brodeur. A major part of the hobby activity is around RC names/cards and the hype of the new players. A lot of collectors hope to buy a card of a prospect name for cheap that will turn into a superstar player where the card will worth hundreds of dollar in the future. However most prospect names turn into noname players. Vintage cards are not that easy to sell. First, demand is pretty low. Who collect cards of Tim Horton? try to trade a card of Tim Horton... very difficult to trade. So, you can eat your money with modern cards as for vintage cards if what you have in your hands don't get significant demand in the hobby. Briefly, we can probably say that anything less than the best cards (vintage or modern) are unseless in this hobby due to the large selection that the collectors have. People remember only who won the gold medal... this hobby is not different than the rest of our society. Sad but a true fact.

[4ant4]

Everything is based on demand, especially on a long term run. People won't pay for Adam Oates but they will pay for Mario Lemieux. People won't pay for Andrew Raycroft but they will pay for Martin Brodeur. A major part of the hobby activity is around RC names/cards and the hype of the new players. A lot of collectors hope to buy a card of a prospect name for cheap that will turn into a superstar player where the card will worth hundreds of dollar in the future. However most prospect names turn into noname players. Vintage cards are not that easy to sell. First, demand is pretty low. Who collect cards of Tim Horton? try to trade a card of Tim Horton... very difficult to trade. So, you can eat your money with modern cards as for vintage cards if what you have in your hands don't get significant demand in the hobby. Briefly, we can probably say that anything less than the best cards (vintage or modern) are unseless in this hobby due to the large selection that the collectors have. People remember only who won the gold medal... this hobby is not different than the rest of our society. Sad but a true fact.

We are talking about vintage cards, Mario Lemieux and Adam Oates are not vintage. Most people who deal in vintage consider 1960 as the breaking point, 50 years and older. You choose Tim Horton and say he is not tradeable? There has to be a reason, probably because whoever owns that Tim Horton card is asking way too much for it in return. Horton is one of the hottest traders/sellers especially with his vintage cards.