Rookie or not Rookie, I need your opinon

[CoolHandLuke]

Hockey now has 2 manufacturer. We all know Upper deck had many brand release last year, well over 20. Now they only get 11 set license. So they had to choose what brand to drop and Upper deck ICE was one of them.

I guess the choice was hard as they needed X number of low, mid and high end set.

So they had the great idea to release the ICE brand under other brand.

Mainly in the 2010-11 Black Diamond they have a ICE subset with 30 cards and 25 ROKKIE PREMIERE card with the four level like they used to have.

I just finish to enter the card set in the SCF Inventory Database from
2010-11 Black Diamond

I name the ice set

2010-11 Black Diamond Ice

I see on Ebay most list them like this:

2010-11 Black Diamond ICE Dana Tyrell RC Rookie 417/999

But here the catch, check the set list:

https://www.sportscardforum.com/scf/inv/viewset/135638

Maily they list
1-30 for regular cards and then
61-65 rookie premiere level 4
71-77 rookie premiere level 3
85-92 rookie premiere level 2
101-105 rookie premiere level 1

RGM81 was telling me they will have the rest of the card in SPX release and more rookie.

Now in Hockey, from all I know, the accepted rules was one rookie card per player per release. So parralel and subset are never considered "True RC".

Here Upper Deck has his regular Rookie from the main BD set. Then issue those to keep the best part of the Ice Brand and span then around other release.

Are they, ICE ROOKIE PREMIERE, "TRUE ROOKIE" and should be flag as rookie in our SCF Inventory database or are just a other parralel of the rookie year of the player?

[The Germinator]

IMO, they should not be called a 'true rookie'.
For me, it's only a subset in Black Diamond.

[KangoBass]

IMO, True Rookie still fits the bill. It's somewhat a technicallity but you get an ICE Pack in every box and you're not finding ICE rookies in BD packs. So true rookie.

[30ranfordfan]

Ice is not an official release, its a special release within Black Diamond & SPx..... so for that reason, I would say no to the RC tag.

Remains to be seen what the collecting masses will think though. It's going to be debated for a while.

[max91ess]

If its not a "True" Rookie then why are people paying 500$ for a Hall...for the collectors its still on of the best..but the value will be less than previous ice /99 tavares , stamkos, price, kane, etc

[v3rs3]

It's pretty much the same thing as the Rookie Update sets they released. It'll definitely be a true RC and people will still value it as such.

[30ranfordfan]

Why do people pay more for the Victory Red than the regular Victory? Why does a Cup Gold Parallel almost always sell for more than the regular RC / Auto / Patch? Why will GU & Auto'd cards of these rookies (from later this year) outsell many of the true RCs ??

I don't think it has to be a "true" RC for people to spend a wad of cash..... and I don`t have any doubt that the Ice /99 is the best card of Hall to date (unless you want to count the UD Spectrum, or maybe one of the Certified).

Now.... I`m not saying that I`m right, or that my opinion is any more valid anyone else`s on this..... but I think there is going to be a very good debate on this.

If its not a "True" Rookie then why are people paying 500$ for a Hall...for the collectors its still on of the best..but the value will be less than previous ice /99 tavares , stamkos, price, kane, etc

[RGM81]

This should be an interesting one eh?

I noticed earlier today that Beckett isn't qualifying the 2010-11 UD French YG's as RCs. They did back in 1990-91, so that's a bit of a diversion. I would assume, and it is just that at this stage, that if they're not counting what is for all intents and purposes a separate release from the regular UD1 set as an RC, they certainly won't count the Ice rookies as RCs.

That said, I'm of the view that the French YGs are RCs, as the product UD French is a standalone release. I'm sure that there's plenty more than 99 copies of each YG so they should fit the bill, right?

Ice...this is a tricky one. It is not a standalone release. It is in the eyes of some a subset within a regular set. But the cards in Ice all have regular sequential numbering - it's as if the cards are titled BD-1 or BD-103, they're just 1 or 103. The cards released in SPx won't be SPx-35 or SPx-75.

Tough call but I do lean towards the RC tag.

[30ranfordfan]

They're not counting the French as RCs ?? That's strange. Are they not available everywhere? Though I suppose that UD doesn't count that as a release (otherwise they'd be over the 12 release limit) so in someone's eyes it's just a parallel?

Who knows. I'm going to make a bold guess. Beckett will NOT list the Ice cards as RCs..... but after enough people complain, they'll change their definition, and count them. Crosby McDonald's card all over again.

This should be an interesting one eh?

I noticed earlier today that Beckett isn't qualifying the 2010-11 UD French YG's as RCs. They did back in 1990-91, so that's a bit of a diversion. I would assume, and it is just that at this stage, that if they're not counting what is for all intents and purposes a separate release from the regular UD1 set as an RC, they certainly won't count the Ice rookies as RCs.

That said, I'm of the view that the French YGs are RCs, as the product UD French is a standalone release. I'm sure that there's plenty more than 99 copies of each YG so they should fit the bill, right?

Ice...this is a tricky one. It is not a standalone release. It is in the eyes of some a subset within a regular set. But the cards in Ice all have regular sequential numbering - it's as if the cards are titled BD-1 or BD-103, they're just 1 or 103. The cards released in SPx won't be SPx-35 or SPx-75.

Tough call but I do lean towards the RC tag.

[CoolHandLuke]

I ask this because manufacturer are making it tough for a card manager developer that I am. For now I did not flag them as RC but tought it was a great time to bring this here and ask member what they think of it.

For me the chalenge will be to be able to list this set as one set some how. I mean they release part in BD and the other part in SPX. The way our database is made, we will have two set. One will list the number sequence and the the 2010-11 SPX ice will list the remaining cards.

I think I can make some coding magic to have at least the card set page list all cards. But I have not tried it yet to see if it will work.

Just making our life more complicated.

If I look at it from a personal point of view, My Carey Price /99 RC is my favoriite RC card. So I can see member wanting to keep it flag as a "True RC"

What will the manufacturer pull out of the bag next?