Bootleg Cards?!?

[Drewk86a]

Where does Upper Deck's "involvement" end? If a B&M store buys 10 cases of product and sells 5 cases to you and 5 cases to someone who is going to re-sell them, what's the difference? That's why the B&M store is in business; to sell cards. They don't care who they sell to be it a collector, investor or reseller. What if you as a collector, buy three cases and resell the indivdual boxes on eBay. Would Upper Deck have an issue with that, too?

I guess I'm bothered by the possibility that Upper Deck might pull a B&M's diamond status if they found out. The dealer sold cards (boxes, or cases) to a customer. How can the dealer be held accountable for what the customer does with those cards.

[RGM81]

Where does Upper Deck's "involvement" end? If a B&M store buys 10 cases of product and sells 5 cases to you and 5 cases to someone who is going to re-sell them, what's the difference? That's why the B&M store is in business; to sell cards. They don't care who they sell to be it a collector, investor or reseller. What if you as a collector, buy three cases and resell the indivdual boxes on eBay. Would Upper Deck have an issue with that, too?

I guess I'm bothered by the possibility that Upper Deck might pull a B&M's diamond status if they found out. The dealer sold cards (boxes, or cases) to a customer. How can the dealer be held accountable for what the customer does with those cards.

Yes they would. Direct from their policy announcement page:

Question – I’m a shop and if I purchase three cases of a product and can’t move two of them, what are my options for selling off the other two cases?
Answer – Shops will need to wait the 90 day period before they look to move product through alternate methods. Any shop found doing so before the 90 day period is subject to removal from the program. It is imperative that shops understand their needs and buy responsibly. Additionally, as an industry we need to get away from this sort of thinking. In what other industry do you plan where you are going to get rid of product before you even take possession of it? Let’s let the collector ultimately determine the fate of products!
Question – As a shop owner, what can I do if someone who is not in the program attempts to buy from me?
Answer – We are investing a lot of resources in tracking where product originates from that is sold online and through unauthorized channels. Shops bear responsibility in knowing their customers. Shops are expected to let buyers know they cannot sell boxes online or to other shops. This program is designed specifically to help shops grow their business so we expect our partners to take responsibility for how they sell Upper Deck products and who they sell it to. We all have to take some responsibility in order for this program to succeed.
Question – As a shop owner, what will happen if I choose not to sign this new agreement?
Answer – You will no longer be able to purchase new Upper Deck products direct or through our distributor network. Additionally, you will not be able to take part in the various programs we will be helping to support our brick & mortar store locations. Lastly, you will no longer receive product information and marketing support for new Upper Deck products and programs. And finally, if you choose not to be a Certified Diamond Dealer your customer’s purchases of Upper Deck products will not be covered by any “warranty” which will significantly limit their ability to receive customer service on issues like damages, collation, etc.

[30ranfordfan]

I don't know for sure what they'd do.... and I don't know how they'd enforce it.

The likelyhood of your local LCS selling you a case of UD Series 1.... and you flipping two of the twelve boxes on eBay..... and Upper Deck caring about it (I would suspect) is pretty minimal.

If if you're in an area with 3 or 4 shops.... you buy 5 cases from one of them..... and then set up at a flea market and re-sell them - that's the kind of thing that UD's new policy is supposed to stop. While the shop owner that sold you your cases probably doesn't care, the others now have more compitition - and the fact that they're authorized dealers is supposed to give them exclusive access (well, exclusive in the sense that only others with similar authorization can be selling) for 90 days.

You're right. The B&M shop is in the business of selling cards, but Upper Deck has told them that they HAVE to care who the sell to, for the first 90 days of a product being released. Collectors, that's the idea. Investers? Why not. Resellers? No, they can't.

Again.... I don't know how you would even be able to enforce this, but it wouldn't be too hard.

UD sees someone selling boxes on eBay..... so they spend the $100 buying back one of their boxes.

Read the bar code. Now they know where it came from (what distributer sold it to what B&M shop).

If they really want to be heavy handed, Diamond status for that guy could be over.


My understanding is that @ the Expo coming up in a couple of weeks..... anyone going should expect to see a LOT LESS tables with UD Series 1, Artifacts, OPC (basically any of the 2011-12 products) for sale than normal. Only the guys who have B&M shops (or are authorized Online retailers...... there are a few of those too) will be selling. No way for the other tables to get them yet.

Where does Upper Deck's "involvement" end? If a B&M store buys 10 cases of product and sells 5 cases to you and 5 cases to someone who is going to re-sell them, what's the difference? That's why the B&M store is in business; to sell cards. They don't care who they sell to be it a collector, investor or reseller. What if you as a collector, buy three cases and resell the indivdual boxes on eBay. Would Upper Deck have an issue with that, too?

I guess I'm bothered by the possibility that Upper Deck might pull a B&M's diamond status if they found out. The dealer sold cards (boxes, or cases) to a customer. How can the dealer be held accountable for what the customer does with those cards.

[bojohnson]

But how is tge dealer supposed to know tgat their buyer sold his boxes on eBay?
They can't control the boxes once they sold them

[mrveggieman]

What is UD going to do about this? Send the hobby police after unauthorized sellers? Nice try UD but this is about as unenforcable as trying to stop the guy on the corner from selling bootleg dvds.

[30ranfordfan]

But how is tge dealer supposed to know tgat their buyer sold his boxes on eBay?
They can't control the boxes once they sold them

You're right. They can't. That's why it's probably now a very bad idea for B&M shops to be selling cases to guys that they know set up at flea markets. It's probably a bad idea to sell cases to guys they don't know.

What is UD going to do about this? Send the hobby police after unauthorized sellers? Nice try UD but this is about as unenforcable as trying to stop the guy on the corner from selling bootleg dvds.

Think that one was already covered. It's really easy. You can't do much to the unauthorizes sellers, but you can take away the selling priviledge of the guy that sold it to them. That's what the barcodes are for. UD can check them, and know where the product came from.

(Which is why the whole thread got started in the first place - OP found people selling boxes with the bar codes cut out of them, so they can't be traced back to who the authorized deal was that had them to start with).

[ralral33]

I donor agree with this one bit , what upperdeck wants you to do is sell 1 box at a time and not sell cases unless u know ur customers are gonna crack the whole case . I am not saying it is right what this guy is doing but he is protecting his store and the guy said the product was not rewrapped so u will most likely get all ur hits ur suppose too . But no matter what ur into when someone trying to cut corners an make a xtra buck someone is always jealous watching trying to snitch . IMO

[dble_g2k]

This is a great thread, I'm very happy I was able to bring this to light. Randfordfan you've certainly been a wealth of knowledge and I'll look forward to seeing if your predictions for current product sales hold true at the expo. I gotta believe SOMEONE is gonna try and sell these boxes there though. That could get interesting!

This is a big mess, at least from my perspective. I'd like to see a 'win-win' solution happen here for all involved. There is A LOT of money at stake for all involved!

[30ranfordfan]

For sure there will be people selling them there.... but those people will be authorized Diamond Dealers.

UD Series 1 is a set I always like to collect. At the expo most years..... you see a variety in prices. Some tables will be $65, others might be as high as $75.

What I'm expecting this year - way less dealers will have them (i.e. only the ones that are authorized) and the price will be the same at every single table.

What they've also done this year is changed the redemption program. Used to be that I could buy a couple of boxes from my local store, take them to the expo, and get the redemptions. I've heard that this will NOT be the case this year. Upper Deck will be giving certificates to all the diamond dealers @ the Expo, and they will give you one when you buy a box from them. You need to bring the box and the certificate to the UD booth to get your redemption card.

[jonpop]

I think people that don't like dealing with the Diamond Dealers and the way UD has set up distribution should boycott and go and spend your money on ITG and Panini.

The UD case purchasers are the crybabies now that they can't get their product through a backdoor distributor to save a few pennies. So sad. Just go to the LCS and buy there like the rest of us, or sit still and wait for 9 months to pass.