Why should I be expected to believe?

[duane1969]

So when He doesn't get what he desires from me, He proceeds to shun me in death. Despite the fact that my only convincing is a bunch of MEN who claim to be spreading His word.

Does this sound reasonable to anyone?

Actually we are doomed to death by the actions of Adam and Eve. Jesus' death on the cross is the gift that we were given by God to free us from the burden of sin placed upon us by Adam and Eve.

He does not shun you in death, you shun him.

If you are hanging off of a cliff and are about to fall and someone offers you their hand to help you up, you either take their hand or you do not. If you do not then they did not shun you, you shunned them, and are responsible for your own death.

[mrveggieman]

i definitely wasn't talking about knocking other religions. i have been in ministry 12 years and have never heard a sermon knocking anyone else. I meant the idea that we aren't supposed to reach out to other people and lead them to christianity. that is one of the largest teaching in the new testament. Also, the idea that all religions are the same. One of jesus' largest teachings was that he was the only way to God. Just seems hard for a christian to not believe either of those things.

I follow God and try to live my lifes actions as an example to others. If someone asks me I tell them how I live my life and how things work for me. If that turns someone one to christanity then I will assist them in any manner possible. As far as what the next man does that is between them and their God. If I wasted energy trying to prove why someone else is wrong that same energy could have been used to help someone get right.

[AUTaxMan]

It is almost impossible for a Christian to convince an atheist of belief in God on the basis of logic. Arguments can be made that at the very least that it is just as logical to believe in God as it is not to believe in Him. Engaging in these arguments, though often entertaining, challenging, frustrating, and thought-provoking, however, is usually a Sisyphean task.

You should believe because it gives you hope and a purpose and changes lives for the better. It gives you a refuge in times of trouble. It allows you to never be alone or feel unloved. You should believe because of the joy it will bring your life and the lives of the people you love. I can say this, because I have witnessed it and experienced it myself. Experiencing that life is the best argument for why you should believe.

[habsheaven]

like I said in my original response, for those who demand proof it doesn't seem reasonable. Instead, we DEMAND that God prove himself to us. If, just for this conversations sake, you believe everything about God, is it reasonable for us to demand anything of him?

If I were to believe "everything" about God I would still EXPECT Him to be reasonable. I spend my whole mortal life expecting everyone else to be reasonable in all manners of life (laws, morals, relationships, business, emotions). Why should I not expect it from the entity that I put my FAITH in?

[habsheaven]

Actually we are doomed to death by the actions of Adam and Eve. Jesus' death on the cross is the gift that we were given by God to free us from the burden of sin placed upon us by Adam and Eve.

He does not shun you in death, you shun him.

If you are hanging off of a cliff and are about to fall and someone offers you their hand to help you up, you either take their hand or you do not. If you do not then they did not shun you, you shunned them, and are responsible for your own death.

If, as you imply, my mortal life is the equivalent to hanging off of a cliff. When is He going to offer me His hand? Why would I take the extended hand of what I perceive to be a 2 year old?

[Star_Cards]

look, some people require proof and evidence before they believe anything. For those people, religion doesn't work. If they choose to seek it they demand god answer to them. God is very upfront, in all religions, that belief will require faith, not proof.

as to your last question, the whole point of heaven is spending eternity in the presence of God. So, of course your decision about whether to acknowledge him in this life should matter.

I will repeat what i wrote on the other thread. People want to live a life where they can do whatever they want, deny, curse, etc. God and then when they die, if God is good he better give them what they deserve. It doesn't work like that. I see the appeal of that life choice but it doesn't.

As to your first question, the people who have found adequate answers are those who took God at his word that it would require faith, instead of waiting around for God to prove himself to them. they found enough reason to put faith in God. I'm actually not trying to make light of it. That is actually the biggest difference.

I find it a bit odd that it's thought that a person who doesn't believe in a god lives a bad life when compared to a person with faith. I'm not sure how to take "People want to live a life where they can do whatever they want". I think I take that as saying that living how you want is bad or not as pure as someone who lives with a faith in a religion. People, even without a religion, can still live and respect other people and live a "good" life. It's completely possible that someone without faith could live a much less sinful life (by the definitions of any religion) than someone who does have faith in any religion.

[Star_Cards]

If I were to believe "everything" about God I would still EXPECT Him to be reasonable. I spend my whole mortal life expecting everyone else to be reasonable in all manners of life (laws, morals, relationships, business, emotions). Why should I not expect it from the entity that I put my FAITH in?

I agree with your point. If a god's presence is so ambiguous to his creations it seems to me that he would have leniency when judging ones who don't believe or have their doubts or believed the wrong religion. Seems to me actions would be far more important than whether or not someone just simply believed there was a god.

[Star_Cards]

I'll also add, if God's goal was to have everyone follow and live a life under his rules why would he not make his presence more concrete? Seems like he would to me, even in a world of free will.

[ensbergcollector]

If I were to believe "everything" about God I would still EXPECT Him to be reasonable. I spend my whole mortal life expecting everyone else to be reasonable in all manners of life (laws, morals, relationships, business, emotions). Why should I not expect it from the entity that I put my FAITH in?

where we are disconnecting is that i don't see it as unreasonable for God to not force someone to spend eternity with a God they refused to acknowledge or believe in. You see it as reasonable for god to welcome everyone regardless of the lives they live. that to me is unreasonable

[ensbergcollector]

I find it a bit odd that it's thought that a person who doesn't believe in a god lives a bad life when compared to a person with faith. I'm not sure how to take "People want to live a life where they can do whatever they want". I think I take that as saying that living how you want is bad or not as pure as someone who lives with a faith in a religion. People, even without a religion, can still live and respect other people and live a "good" life. It's completely possible that someone without faith could live a much less sinful life (by the definitions of any religion) than someone who does have faith in any religion.

i agree completely and already clarified that statement so there would be no confusion. sorry about that.