Abortion? Which side do you fall on?

[ensbergcollector]

Interesting how people who claim to be "pro-life" are almost always pro-war, pro-death penalty, anti-sex education, anti-contraception, anti-gun control and anti-child services, and demand that pregnant mothers go through with deliveries that will almost certainly kill both them and the baby. Interesting how whenever you hear about doctors or their patients being murdered, the killer is always a pro-lifer ranting and screeching about the "sanctity of life." Oh yes..."Life is sacred, therefore I'm going to kill you." Makes about as much sense as anything else that comes out of the religious right.

Stop, I know what you're going to say. "You can't compare being pro-war, pro-death penalty and anti-gun control to being pro-life, because killing in wartime, killing convicted criminals and killing in 'self-defense' are NOT murder, but abortion IS murder!" Yeah, you know what? That's a pointless argument. Humans have been debating and reversing on exactly which circumstances of killing are and are not murder for centuries, and it's all completely culturally relative and self-serving. Killing someone from a different tribe used to not be murder. Killing a slave used to not be murder. Killing political dissidents used to not be murder. Killing prisoners of war used to not be murder. Stop trying to pretend there's some objective standard of when it is OK to kill someone and when it is not OK to kill someone. It's nothing more than an Us vs. Them thing, pure tribalism, and that's all it has ever been and will ever be. When someone from Us gets killed, it's murder. When someone from Them gets killed, it's not murder. A fetus is part of Us, so it's not OK to kill a fetus. An abortion doctor is part of Them, so it is OK to kill an abortion doctor. Well, you know what? If some invading army from a foreign nation invaded your hometown and killed your family under the pretext of war, you know you'd be the first one to jump up and decry it as murder, but when your country's army does that to some other country, then it's not murder? Pppbbphph.

Most pro-lifers have no concern for the child's well-being at all, however much they might pretend they do. What if the child won't survive the delivery? "We don't care, have it anyway." What if the mother won't survive the delivery? "We don't care, have it anyway." What if neither the mother nor the child will survive the delivery? "We don't care, have it anyway." What if the child has a horrible birth defect that will make its life agonizing and short? "We don't care, have it anyway." What if the parents are completely unfit to take care of a child? "We don't care, have it anyway." What if the parents are willing to care for the child but not able? "We don't care, have it anyway. We want to shut down any and all government assistance to people like you. You should have thought of that before you had sex." Oh, there we go. That's what this is all about, isn't it? They just want to use the child as a means to punish the parents. Basically, this is what they have to say to anyone considering abortion: "We don't care if you were raped by your uncle and it would kill you and the baby to go through with the birth. You deserve everything that happened to you. So you freakin' have the baby, and you freakin' die, and you freakin' love it, because then you and your baby can be together in heaven. The alternative is you go to hell. Well, actually, we think you'll go to hell no matter what you do, and we love that. Now get out of here, we're in the middle of a game of golf."

The real reasons they're against abortion are these:
- If someone has an abortion, that means they had sex, which means they were not obeying my religion.
- Every fetus that gets aborted is another one that won't grow up to give money to my church.
- Every fetus that gets aborted is one less vote for Rick Perry, or whatever fundigelical whack-job politician I'm drooling over this week.

dude, you are off your rocker, you know that. saying something is not a valid argument does not make it not a valid argument.

the simple fact that you say we can't point out a difference in aborting a child and sentencing a serial killer to death shows that you have no common sense at all. your "real reasons" are obscene and ridiculous. and guess what, you stating them doesn't make them fact. and again, sorry if I don't take a proud atheists word as to what christians are "really" thinking.


also, i will not comment back on this because you are obviously trying to derail a thread that is trying to stay on topic. instead you are just trying to use any thread you can as an anti-christian thread

[PDawson21]

dude, you are off your rocker, you know that. saying something is not a valid argument does not make it not a valid argument.

the simple fact that you say we can't point out a difference in aborting a child and sentencing a serial killer to death shows that you have no common sense at all. your "real reasons" are obscene and ridiculous. and guess what, you stating them doesn't make them fact. and again, sorry if I don't take a proud atheists word as to what christians are "really" thinking.


also, i will not comment back on this because you are obviously trying to derail a thread that is trying to stay on topic. instead you are just trying to use any thread you can as an anti-christian thread

Totally agree with Ens

[AUTaxMan]

The real reasons they're against abortion are these:
- If someone has an abortion, that means they had sex, which means they were not obeying my religion.
- Every fetus that gets aborted is another one that won't grow up to give money to my church.
- Every fetus that gets aborted is one less vote for Rick Perry, or whatever fundigelical whack-job politician I'm drooling over this week.

Give it a rest, man. Why do you have so much hatred inside?

[gatorboymike]

Give it a rest, man. Why do you have so much hatred inside?

It's not something I can explain to someone who hasn't been a witness to much of my life.

Although today, I have so much hatred inside because of overcharging auto mechanics.

[AUTaxMan]

It's not something I can explain to someone who hasn't been a witness to much of my life.

Although today, I have so much hatred inside because of overcharging auto mechanics.

I wish you'd focus that hatred into something positive, for your sake. Except for the hatred of overcharging auto mechanics. I'm with you on that one.

[duane1969]

Keep it on topic please (again). Not really feeling like seeing yet another thread devolve into a religion bashing thread.

[gatorboymike]

I wish you'd focus that hatred into something positive, for your sake. Except for the hatred of overcharging auto mechanics. I'm with you on that one.

How am I supposed to focus hatred of pro-lifers into something positive? I've tried to be civil with them before and walked away feeling like I'd been held hostage and drenched in sewer water. It's simply not possible to have a pleasant conversation with people whose only interest is to shout, plaster and otherwise exude their agenda all over everyone and everything for the express purpose of drowning out all dissenting voices.

Let me paint you a picture. I'm walking across the student union courtyard of the university where I study and work, only to discover that pro-life protesters have laid down a basketball court-sized enclosure of fence in the adjoining lawn, with two dozen small billboards erected around the perimeter depicting graphic pictures of aborted fetuses and cartoonishly evil-looking doctors, parked inside of which are three large trucks with similar murals on both sides. Something like 30 people are moving around inside this enclosure, handing out fliers and shouting politically and religiously charged slogans through megaphones. They parked themselves right in the middle of the highest-traffic area of the entire campus for the purpose of distracting everyone and making a grotesque spectacle of themselves.

I steer clear of this whole thing, much to the chagrin of the army of ravenous, bloodthirsty wolves rattling around inside my brain, knowing that if I get anywhere near them I'll just end up being myself. So I turn around and head back to the union to get a burger, only to find a bunch more of these people milling around the courtyard. I notice they've put up a giant dry-erase board in the courtyard, only it's been covered with white paper on both sides and labeled "FREE SPEECH BOARD." I decide to scribble a few snide remarks on it, and turn around to find three of them, all young women, standing in a row right behind me like a firing squad. Immediately they all start grilling me from all angles, much like the burger I was on my way to purchase. Although they didn't curse at me or use any direct insults, I could tell from what they said, how they said it, and the murderous looks in their eyes that they thought I was the scum that the scum they scrape off their boots scrapes off its' boots, and they had been extensively trained on how to approach people, just like Scientologists. At suspiciously convenient intervals in the conversation, two of them peel off to go and inspect their "free speech board," and they actually start crossing out things people had written that they didn't like, and writing derogatory things with arrows pointing to the crossed-out comments. Free speech indeed. All this is going on while some older man who is also part of their group is walking around the courtyard shouting through a bullhorn that "The liberal elite college professors are brainwashing you with the lie of evolution!"

You tell me how I can channel what I feel about these people into something positive. You expect me to take their arguments seriously? You expect me to see any validity in their message when they can only deliver it in that fashion? You expect me to join that side? Oh no, my friend. No, no, no. In order to that, I would have to have my conscience, my dignity and my sense of self-respect aborted.

[AUTaxMan]

How am I supposed to focus hatred of pro-lifers into something positive? I've tried to be civil with them before and walked away feeling like I'd been held hostage and drenched in sewer water. It's simply not possible to have a pleasant conversation with people whose only interest is to shout, plaster and otherwise exude their agenda all over everyone and everything for the express purpose of drowning out all dissenting voices.

Let me paint you a picture. I'm walking across the student union courtyard of the university where I study and work, only to discover that pro-life protesters have laid down a basketball court-sized enclosure of fence in the adjoining lawn, with two dozen small billboards erected around the perimeter depicting graphic pictures of aborted fetuses and cartoonishly evil-looking doctors, parked inside of which are three large trucks with similar murals on both sides. Something like 30 people are moving around inside this enclosure, handing out fliers and shouting politically and religiously charged slogans through megaphones. They parked themselves right in the middle of the highest-traffic area of the entire campus for the purpose of distracting everyone and making a grotesque spectacle of themselves.

I steer clear of this whole thing, much to the chagrin of the army of ravenous, bloodthirsty wolves rattling around inside my brain, knowing that if I get anywhere near them I'll just end up being myself. So I turn around and head back to the union to get a burger, only to find a bunch more of these people milling around the courtyard. I notice they've put up a giant dry-erase board in the courtyard, only it's been covered with white paper on both sides and labeled "FREE SPEECH BOARD." I decide to scribble a few snide remarks on it, and turn around to find three of them, all young women, standing in a row right behind me like a firing squad. Immediately they all start grilling me from all angles, much like the burger I was on my way to purchase. Although they didn't curse at me or use any direct insults, I could tell from what they said, how they said it, and the murderous looks in their eyes that they thought I was the scum that the scum they scrape off their boots scrapes off its' boots, and they had been extensively trained on how to approach people, just like Scientologists. At suspiciously convenient intervals in the conversation, two of them peel off to go and inspect their "free speech board," and they actually start crossing out things people had written that they didn't like, and writing derogatory things with arrows pointing to the crossed-out comments. Free speech indeed. All this is going on while some older man who is also part of their group is walking around the courtyard shouting through a bullhorn that "The liberal elite college professors are brainwashing you with the lie of evolution!"

You tell me how I can channel what I feel about these people into something positive. You expect me to take their arguments seriously? You expect me to see any validity in their message when they can only deliver it in that fashion? You expect me to join that side? Oh no, my friend. No, no, no. In order to that, I would have to have my conscience, my dignity and my sense of self-respect aborted.

I was just talking about the time and energy you expend hating pretty much everything in general.

[gatorboymike]

I was just talking about the time and energy you expend hating pretty much everything in general.

Well, I don't like the human race in general. Never have.

[mrveggieman]

I have been reading through the past few posts and although what our good friend GBM was saying was kind of over the top I agree with the concept of what he was saying. Yes I am against abortion in most circumstances but I do agree with him that most (not all because I am in the minority as well) of pro life people are also pro war, anti sex education, anti contraception and against services for the poor. Like GBM alluded to it has nothing to do with caring for the unborn children but it is a way to control peoples bodies and beliefs. I challenge anyone on here who claims to be against abortion to practice what you preach. If you really care for the unborn stop fighting against people having access to sex education and contraception and stop voting to end services for the disadvantage that will help these unborn children after they are born if you really do love them as you claim that you do. Sorry if I veered off topic but I had to get this off my chest.