Questions, Questions... more Questions

[AaronSee]

Any help is greatly appreciated.

I'm a born-again card collector but I might as well be brand new (haven't collected in 15 years). I bought a few packs of Certified Panini and I liked the look of them so I bought my first hobby box. I like the cards a lot - I don't think there were any big "hits" but still, I really like the design and look.

But, as I research forums, magazines, etc. I get the sense that people are pretty down on Certified (and more so Panini in general).

Why is this?

Also, a few questions regarding assessing the value of cards.

I've read a lot of people chirping "book value" - implying that it isn't very realistic... so, are numbers from people like Beckett inflated? Should I trust the small estimate or the large?

Does it matter if you pull a numbered card that is the number of that particular player?

I pulled a "green mirror" Keith Yandle, numbered 3/5 (and he's number 3). Would that be considered short print?

I know these are some rookie questions but I'm a rookie.

Thanks

[cardscardscards]

Welcome aboard!!! Hope you have a good time here. :)

Panini started out badly because of the massive amount of redemptions in last year's products. It's a lot better this year, but seeing as it's their second year doing hockey cards, they still have quirks to fix plus they have the reputation of having terrible collation issues. Not that I've seen Upper Deck do much better, but it seems to be worst on the Panini side.

Beckett values are inflated. Often by a LOT. If you really want to know how much a card of yours is worth, try Ebay. At least there the prices are real.

Cards numbered to a player's jersey are now lovingly named "ebay 1 of 1's". So is card #1 (ie. #001/999) and the last one in the batch (ie. #999/999). They do however sell for a small premium. The ones that match the player's jersey number will often get a higher premium.

Your Yandle is a short print. Basically any parallel that is more rare than the common card is a short print.

[stankskunk]

I'll try my hand at some of these.. note though, this is just my opinion, and you'd be well to take advice from a number of different people, as some peoples' experiences tend to bias them towards certain companies and whatnot.

Panini: There are a few issues people seem to have with Panini, but they tend to be similar to Upper Deck issues and depend on who you talk to. Alot of Panini negatives come from the slew of parallels in their products, poor card stock quality (at least from last year's products), poor customer service, and resale value tends to take a hit because of the first two issues. (As far as I've seen)

Book Value: There is increasing attitude that Beckett's book value guide is no longer relevant with the increase in online card sales and ebay. Over time you'll be able to notice what certain players/sets go for, and can judge what you value them at accordingly. Many members here however still choose to trade by book value (BV), and when trading by that system, most members choose to use the Beckett High pricing rather than the low.

Myself, I trade by both ebay sale value, and by Beckett book value. I usually leave it up to the person I'm trading with if they'd prefer one way or the other, but the main idea is to make sure you're happy with the trade/sale regardless of ebay/beckett values.

Short Print: Generally something that is short print can be serial numbered (most people would say if its #/25 or less, its reasonably short printed), or if its not serial numbered, sometimes the card company will mention the card is short printed. SCF is a great resource for this type of thing, as many guys watch out for short prints in new product and will discuss it.

Hope that helps a bit, good luck! :)

[AaronSee]

Thank you both. Definitely helps.

[reoddai]

I'm a born-again card collector but I might as well be brand new (haven't collected in 15 years). I bought a few packs of Certified Panini and I liked the look of them so I bought my first hobby box. I like the cards a lot - I don't think there were any big "hits" but still, I really like the design and look.

Hallelujah. Welcome back.

But, as I research forums, magazines, etc. I get the sense that people are pretty down on Certified (and more so Panini in general).

Why is this?

In the same way that there are hard core democrats/liberals and hard core republicans/conservatives and there are hard core third party people and then there's the rest.

Some poeple love Panini and hate Upper deck. Some are loving Upper Deck and hating everyone else. Some go for In The Game cause UD and Panini don't have what they want. Most will trade for whatever. As varied are the spectrums of political interests, so to are they on hockey card manufacturers.

Also, a few questions regarding assessing the value of cards.

I've read a lot of people chirping "book value" - implying that it isn't very realistic... so, are numbers from people like Beckett inflated? Should I trust the small estimate or the large?

It depends on what you mean by "Book value". theoretically, book value has two numbers, the LO and HI numbers. They are supposed to represent the LOwest that you could buy a card for and the HIghest you should expect to pay for a card. However, as eBay gained influence online people started seeing actual sales and what they found was that most cards (at least online) sell for the LO value or ~30% of the HI value (which is often times the lo value). Then we get to see complains of why its useless since most cards are selling at LO and we should expect to see them sell between LO and HI. You will also see people who trade ONLY by HI value and some people who trade by SV (or salve value). Also, since the Beckett values are printd, they can't respond to trends. Like the hot player who suddenly sells for double their HI BV.

You will also find people who just like to trade. I suggest trading with that group.

Does it matter if you pull a numbered card that is the number of that particular player?

I pulled a "green mirror" Keith Yandle, numbered 3/5 (and he's number 3). Would that be considered short print?

Yes it matters, not as much as you think. Most people will say that they don't care, but there is a small enough segment that do care and will give a premium for that. By the very fact that there are people willing to pay a premium for the jersey number that means that you can charge a little more for it, or ask a little more in trade.

The "Short print" that you refer to is not correct. SP applies to non-numbered cards only. Let's say in a set of 30 cards, the producer, like Upper deck, prints them on a sheet that fits 5 cards wide by 10 cards long. That's 50 cards per printed sheet. Of the 30 cards in the set, you print them all once and since there are 20 spots left over, you print the first 20 in the set again.

That means that the most common cards are 1-20 and they appear 4 times more often. The 21-30 only appear 20% of the time and are therefore "short printed".

Your out of 5 card is a numbered card since it is stamped out of 5 (/5).

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
reoddai

[AaronSee]

Thanks reoddai. It's nice to see this kind of support in the community. I definitely agree with your suggestion to trade with people who just like to trade.

Thanks again.

[30ranfordfan]

Welcome to SCF!

You've already recieved as good of answers as I'll be able to hand out, but I'll throw another voice out there to say "exactly as he just said"

[skyride39]

it's always nice to check out box breaks on youtube of other sports that panini and UD (and check out topps too) makes cards for, just to get a feel for what the companies' products are like. and you can also get a feel of what people think, whether from a hockey, football, baseball, or basketball point of view. it's always interesting to analyze/study how a product line translates into other sports (ie certified hockey versus certified football, basketball).