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Thread: Rookies from 1989-2005

  
  1. #1




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    Rookies from 1989-2005

    I have the following Football Rookies that I am looking to sell (NOT looking to trade). Also have a post with Autos & Game-Used for sale as well. LMK if interested in anything and what you are willing to offer. Thanks in advance. (If a price is listed next to a card that is the current book value - NOT my asking price)

    '05 Absolute Memorabilia:
    #157 - Erasmus James (851/999)
    #172 - Darren Sproles (274/999)
    #192 - Noah Herron (947/999)
    '05 Absolute Memorabilia Spectrum Thomas Davis #153 (042/100)
    '05 Donruss Classics:
    #165 - Mike Patterson (1613/1999)
    #166 - Brodney Pool (0865/1999)
    #167 - Barrett Rudd (0042/1999)
    #178 - Ryan Moats (1355/1499)
    #180 - Alex Smith (0844/1499)
    #187 - Stefan LeFors (0384/1499)
    #206 - Troy Williamson (673/999)
    '05 Donruss Elite:
    #102 - Adam Jones (093/499)
    #115 - Brandon Jones (352/499)
    #129 - Courtney Roby (087/499)
    #137 - Darren Sproles (426/499)
    #164 - Kevin Burnett (198/499)
    #180 - Roscoe Parrish (212/499)
    #187 - Chad Owens (352/499)
    '05 Finest:
    #121 - Frank Gore
    #123 - Antrel Rolle
    #124 - Roddy White
    #136 - Ciatrick Fason
    #144 - J.J. Arrington
    #145 - Fred Gibson
    '05 Playoff Honors Dan Orlovsky #129 (167/699)
    '05 Playoff Honors X's Manuel White #122 (40/99)
    '05 Playoff Prestige Andrew Walter #154 - $4
    '05 Reflections:
    #103 - Keron Henry (887/899)
    #109 - Paris Warren (637/899)
    #132 - Stanley Wilson (155/899)
    #173 - Jon Goldsberry (608/899)
    #186 - Larry Brackins (309/699)
    #191 - Chad Owens (374/699)
    #218 - Michael Roos (228/699)
    '05 Reflections Green:
    #123 - Jerome Collins (50/75)
    #153 - Jamaica Rector (19/75)
    '05 Reflections Blue Will Matthews #121 (86/99) - $8
    '05 Topps Chrome:
    #196 - Roddy White
    #198 - Mike Williams
    #207 - Khalif Barnes
    #214 - Lionel Gates
    #219 - J.R. Russell
    #240 - Fred Gibson
    '05 Topps Chrome Refractor Jason Campbell #171
    '05 Topps Draft Picks & Prospects:
    #122 - Dan Cody
    #153 - Alvin Pearman
    #158 - Kay Jay Harris
    '05 Upper Deck Foundations Justin Miller #143 (185/399)

    '04 Absolute Memorabilia Spectrum #161 - B.J. Symons (024/100)
    '04 Bowman:
    #170 - Philip Rivers
    #173 - Marcus Tubbs
    #175 - Larry Fitzgerald
    #185 - Reggie Williams
    #192 - Jericho Cotchery
    #196 - Chris Gamble
    #207 - Jeff Smoker
    #218 - Devard Darling
    '04 Bowman Chrome:
    #155 - Shaun Phillips
    #176 - Shawntae Spencer
    #183 - Clarence Moore
    '04 Donruss Classics Carlos Francis #187 (0299/1250)
    '04 Donruss Classics Marcus Tubbs #191 (0911/1250)
    ’04 Donruss Classics Timeless Tributes Will Smith #247 (033/100)
    '04 Donruss Elite Rookies:
    #144 - Jeff Smoker (360/500)
    #179 - Philip Rivers (355/500)
    ’04 Finest:
    #63 – Julius Jones - $12
    #67 – Derrick Strait - $2
    #72 – Rashaun Woods - $2
    #76 – Roy Williams - $5
    #84 – Steven Jackson - $6
    #88 – Daryl Smith - $2
    #90 – Casey Bramlet - $1.50
    #93 – Jim Sorgi - $2
    #97 – Matt Mauck - $2
    #98 – Bradlee Van Pelt - $3
    #99 – D. J. Williams - $2.50
    ’04 Finest Gold Refractor Dunta Robinson #64 (30/50)
    '04 Fleer Showcase Marquise Walker #141 (213/599)
    ’04 Leaf Certified Materials New Generation John Navarre #179 (150/150)
    '04 Playoff Honors Rookie Tandems Greg Jones/Reggie Williams
    '04 Playoff Honors Rookie Quads Larry Fitzgerald/DeAngelo Hall/Michael Jenkins/Matt Schaub (0917/1250) - $8
    '04 Playoff Prestige Robert Kent #227
    '04 Reflections Rookies:
    #170 - Teddy Lehman (330/750)
    #174 - Dunta Robinson (012/750)
    #198 - Ben Utecht (291/750)
    #211 - Triandos Luke (0430/1150)
    #220 - Sean Tufts (0650/1150)
    #224 - Rodney Leisle (0358/1150)
    #239 - Amon Gordon (0717/1150)
    #249 - Daryl Smith (0391/1150)
    #253 - Sean Ryan (1000/1150)
    #267 - Reggie Torber (0616/1150)
    #270 - Ronald Jones (0193/1150)
    #276 - Niko Koutouvides (0461/1150)
    #278 - Jim Sorgi (0029/1150)
    #287 - Derrick Ward (1149/1150)
    #290 - Scott Aislov (0443/1150)
    #291 - Ryan Boschetti (0273/1150)
    '04 Reflections Red Robert Gallery #159 (010/100)
    '04 Reflections Green #128 (10/50)
    '04 Score:
    #378 - DeAngelo Hall
    #379 - Reggie Williams
    #383 - Lee Evans
    #409 - Travis LaBoy
    #424 - Courtney Watson
    '04 SP Authentic Gold Shawntae Spencer #145 (28/50)
    '04 SP Game Used Edition:
    #151 - B.J. Symons (097/425)
    #179 - Keyaron Fox (070/425)
    #188 - Quincy Wilson (298/425)
    #192 - Josh Davis (255/425)
    '04 SP Game Used Edition Gold Devard Darling #194 (09/50)
    ’04 SPx Mewelde Moore #185 (246/799)
    '04 Sweet Spot:
    #162 - Will Poole (1093/1299)
    #190 - Casey Bramlet (595/999)
    '04 Topps #312, 315, 316, 320, 325, 327, 329, 330, 338, 340, 343, 344, 355, 360, 364, 368, 369, 370, 372, 374, 375, 376, 377, 379, 380, 384
    '04 Topps Chrome:
    #173 - Robert Gallery
    #200 - Chris Perry
    #237 – Ricardo Colclough
    #247 – Darrion Scott
    #253 - Donnell Washington
    #275 - Sean Ryan
    #PP14 - Michael Jenkins
    ’04 Topps Chrome Refractor Matt Mauck #269
    '04 Topps Chrome Black Refractor Sloan Thomas #270 (056/100) - $25
    '04 Topps Draft Picks & Prospects:
    #111 - Steven Jackson
    #135 - Keary Colbert
    #145 - Chris Perry
    ’04 Topps Pristine Chris Perry #67 (670/999)
    '04 Topps Pristine Greg Jones #90
    '04 Topps Pristine Kevin Jones #105
    ’04 Topps Pristine Encased Refractor Robert Gallery #138 (0674/1099)
    ’04 Topps Pristine Rookie Roy Williams #143 (065/499)
    '04 Ultra Rookies:
    #214 - Michael Turner
    #221 - J.P. Losman
    #226 - Will Poole
    '04 Ultra Gold Medallion Rookie Lucky 13 Mike Williams #209
    ’04 Upper Deck Finite Rookies:
    #145 – Marquis Cooper (062/275)
    #198 – Dexter Reid (052/275)
    #199 – Daryl Smith (129/275)
    #210 - Jason Shivers (105/275)
    ’04 Upper Deck Foundations:
    #148 - Gilbert Gardner (079/350)
    #219 - Carlos Francis (257/350)
    '04 Upper Deck Foundations Silver Cedric Cobbs #115 (023/100)

    ’03 Absolute Memorabilia Kenny Peterson #133 (0483/1000)
    '03 Absolute Memorabilia Spectrum Michael Bennett #76 (091/150)
    '03 Bowman Chrome Rookies #117, 120, 123, 132, 156, 159, 162, 164, 166, 167, 169, 170, 171, 173, 174, 175, 176, 178, 200, 207, 212, 220
    '03 Bowman Chrome Rookie Refractor Terrence Holt #166 (440/500)
    '03 Bowman Chrome Rookie Xfractor Chaun Thompson #165 (122/250)
    '03 Donruss Classics Rookies:
    #152 - Byron Leftwich (207/900)
    #163 - Avon Cobourne (825/900)
    #167 - Domanick Davis (569/900)
    #181 - Anquan Boldin (087/900)
    #231 - Victor Hobson (488/900)
    '03 Donruss Elite:
    #132 - Arnaz Battle (279/500)
    #136 - Brandon Lloyd (037/500)
    #178 - William Joseph (091/500)
    '03 Finest Rookies #61, 62, 63, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 97, 98, 99, 100
    '03 Flair Rookies:
    #104 - Tyrone Calico (058/500)
    #107 - Andrew Pinnock (124/500)
    #115 - Arnaz Battle (393/500)
    '03 Fleer Hot Prospects Jerome McDougle #112 (0574/1250)
    ’03 Leaf Rookies and Stars #101, 102, 111, 113, 117, 120, 121, 122, 134, 135, 137, 138, 152, 153, 163, 164, 165, 170, 180, 181, 187, 192, 196, 197
    '03 Playoff Hogg Heaven:
    #101 - Tyler Brayton (0537/1000)
    #166 - Doug Gabriel (0476/1000)
    '03 Playoff Honors Rookies:
    #130 - LaTarence Dunbar (364/550)
    #134 - David Tyree (491/550)
    #142 - Travis Anglin (046/550)
    '03 Score #283, 293, 302, 304, 311, 313, 324, 326
    '03 SP Game-Used Edition:
    #97 - Kliff Kingsbury (584/600)
    #125 - Justin Gage (155/600)
    '03 SP Signature Edition Casey Fitzsimmons #147 (738/750)
    '03 SPx Rookies:
    #137 - Reshard Lee (0568/1500)
    #148 - Jeremi Johnson (1125/1500)
    #153 - Brandon Lloyd (0708/1500)
    #170 - Keenan Howry (0110/1500)
    #180 - Mike Bush (0036/1500)
    #185 - Cecil Moore (1320/1500)
    '03 Sweet Spot Rookies:
    #101 – Dan Klecko (0899/1500)
    #117 - Kassim Osgood (0076/1500)
    #166 - George Wrighster (574/675)
    '03 Topps Draft Picks Rookies:
    #106 - Larry Johnson
    #110 - Chris Simms
    #112 - Charles Rogers
    #146 - LaBrandon Toefield
    '03 Topps Draft Picks and Prospects Chrome Kelley Washington #134
    '03 UD Finite Rookies Level One:
    #207 - Roderick Babers
    #209 - Nate Hybl (983/999)
    '03 UD Finite Major Factors Antonio Gates #114 (090/750) - $40
    '03 Ultimate Collection Rookies:
    #56 - Dave Ragone (474/750)
    #60 - Kirk Farmer (726/750)
    #66 - Domanick Davis (276/750)
    #74 - Brandon Lloyd (have 2)
    #78 - Nate Burleson (have 2)
    #105 - Andre Johnson (686/750)
    '03 Upper Deck Patch Collection Rookies:
    #122 - Chris Simms
    #127 - Ken Dorsey
    #144 - Taylor Jacobs
    '03 Upper Deck Pros & Prospects:
    #129 - Ronald Bellamy/Amani Toomer (0168/1800)
    #130 - Jason Gesser/Drew Bledsoe (1411/1800)
    #139 - Musa Smith/Charley Trippi (1254/1800)
    #167 - Dennis Weatherby/Aeneas Williams (0474/1800)
    #176 - Zach Hilton/Sam Aiken (1541/1800)
    #190 - George Wrighster/Justin Peele (0379/1800)
    '03 Upper Deck Pros & Prospects Gold Mike Pinkard/Todd Heap #185 (06/50)

    ’02 Bowman Chrome Rookies:
    #112 - Mike Williams
    #114 – Josh Reed
    #123 – Marquise Walker
    #124 – Kalimba Edwards
    #125 – Daniel Graham
    #128 – DeShaun Foster
    #134 – Albert Haynesworth
    #141 – Ron Johnson
    #145 – Jon McGraw
    #149 – Travis Fisher
    #158 – Jarrod Baxter
    #173 – Lito Sheppard
    #179 – Alan Harper
    #184 – Carlos Hall
    ’02 Borman Chrome Refractors:
    #174 – Damien Anderson (288/500)
    #193 – Jarrett Ferguson (235/500)
    '02 Donruss Rookies:
    #219 - DeShaun Foster
    #224 - Maurice Morris
    #251 - Kelly Campbell
    '02 Donruss Classics Antwaan Randle-El #170 (0501/1000)
    '02 Fleer Box Score:
    #142 - Dwight Freeney (0607/1500)
    #147 - Daniel Graham (0697/1500)
    '02 Fleer Classic Combinations:
    Kendrell Bell/Brian Urlacher #1 (1271/2000)
    '02 Fleer Throwbacks:
    #104 - Tim Carter
    #105 - Rohan Davey
    #108 - DeShaun Foster
    #110 - William Green
    #113 - Ashley Lelie
    #117 - Patrick Ramsey
    #122 - Donte Stallworth
    '02 Leaf Rookies & Stars Sam Simmons #277
    '02 Pacific Exclusives Gold Josh McNown #181
    '02 Score Rookies:
    David Carr
    Joey Harrington
    Clinton Portis
    Javon Walker
    Donte Stallworth
    Jeremy Shockey
    '02 SP Legendary Cuts Destined for Glory Chad Hutchinson #126 (223/500)
    '02 SPx Tellis Redmon #101 (1084/1500)
    '02 Sweet Spot Chad Hutchinson #111 (0526/1050)
    '02 Topps Chrome Rookies:
    #219 - Anthony Weaver
    #252 - Wes Pate
    '02 Topps Pristine Rohan Davey #87
    '02 Topps Pristine David Carr #170 (139/499)
    '02 Topps Pristine Refractor Rohan Davey #87 (568/999)
    '02 Topps Pristine Refractor Brian Westbrook #129 (361/999)
    '02 Upper Deck Ovation Ashley Lelie #94 (0139/1985)

    Drew Brees Rookies
    '00 Leaf Rookies & Stars #302
    '01 Bowman #164
    '01 Bowman's Best #121 (0117/1499)
    '01 Donruss Classics #102 (260/475)
    '01 E-X #95 (0952/1000)
    '01 Finest #127 (0772/1000)
    '01 Fleer Game Time #125 (0487/2001)
    '01 Fleer Genuine Future Swatch Jersey #140 (0186/1000)
    '01 Fleer Premium #214 (1765/2001)
    '01 Playoff Preferred #102 (0294/1100)
    '01 Topps Heritage #116 (1687/1956)
    '01 Topps Reserve Drew Brees #130 (373/999)
    '01 Upper Deck Game Gear #107 (408/500)
    '01 Upper Deck Legends #111 (have 2)

    Michael Vick Rookies:
    ’01 Fleer Game Time #111 (0826/2001) - $25
    ’01 Fleer Premium #209 (0548/2001) - $30
    '01 Pacific #515 (0129/1000) - $50
    ’01 Quantum Leaf #201 - $15
    ’01 Topps Heritage #133 (0322/1956) - $50
    '01 Upper Deck Ovation Rookie Gear Jersey - $50

    Santana Moss Rookies:
    '01 Bowman Chrome #178 - $12 (0917/1999)
    '01 Fleer Focus #189 - $8 (have 2 - #'d to 1850)
    '01 Fleer Legacy #100 - $12 (006/999)
    '01 Fleer Premium #241 - $8 (1591/2001)
    '01 Quantum Leaf #224 - $3
    '01 Topps #330 - $2 (have 2)
    '01 Topps Chrome #224 - $30 (901/999)
    '01 Topps Heritage Chrome #140 - $18 (373/556)
    '01 UD Game Gear #97 - $10 (0285/1000)
    '01 Upper Deck Ovation Color #143 - $25 (021/250)
    '01 Upper Deck Rookie F/X #318 - $8 (449/750)
    '01 Upper Deck Vintage #245 - $3

    '01 Bowman Chrome Rookies:
    #113 - Tony Stewart (1726/1999)
    #139 - Billy Baber (1378/1999)
    #147 - Richard Seymour (0830/1999)
    #156 - Dan Alexander (0755/1999)
    #189 - Reggie Wayne (1697/1999)
    #228 - Idrees Bashir (0744/1999)
    #236 - Ken Lucas (0937/1999)
    '01 Bowman Chrome Gold Refractor Rookie Damione Lewis #197 (47/99)
    '01 Donruss Classics Deuce McCallister #110 (196/475)
    '01 Donruss Elite Anthony Thomas #116 (272/500)
    '01 E-X Deuce McCallister #114 (1046/1250)
    '01 Finest Gerard Warren #103 (0743/1000)
    '01 Finest PSA 10 Gem Mint Chris Chambers
    '01 Pacific Sedrick Hodge #469 (1173/2500)
    '01 Pacific Larry Casher #494 (0021/2500)
    '01 Pacific Vinny Sutherland #473 (0736/1750)
    '01 Pacific All-Rookie Team LaDainian Tomlinson #7
    '01 Playoff Preferred Deuce McCallister #114 (have 2)
    '01 Playoff Preferred Tommy Polley #184 (0147/1000)
    '01 Playoff Preferred Jesse Palmer #105 (0875/1000)
    '01 Topps Heritage Rod Gardner #128 (0198/1956)
    '01 UD Graded Portrait Rod Gardner #59 (672/750)
    '01 UD Graded Action Rod Gardner #59 (281/750)
    '01 UD Graded Portrait Kevan Barlow Beckett Gem Mint 9.5 #83 (027/900)
    '01 Ultra Gold Medallion Shaun Alexander #230
    '01 Upper Deck Todd Heap #259
    '01 Upper Deck Legends:
    #99 - T.J. Houshmandzadeh (506/750)
    #114 - Zeke Moreno (359/750)
    #149 - Jabari Holloway (621/750)
    '01 Upper Deck Pros and Prospects Rod Gardner #122 (0243/1000)
    '01 Upper Deck Rookie F/X Upper Deck Chris Chambers #244 (115/750)
    '01 Upper Deck Top Tier Chris Chambers #212 (1841/2000)
    '01 Vanguard Chris Chambers #123 (005/450)

    Chad Pennington rookies:
    '00 Absolute #159 (0906/3000) - $10
    '00 Bowman's Best #116 (0903/1499) - $15
    '00 Donruss Elite #136 (1274/2000) - $12
    '00 Greats of the Game #104 (0784/1500) - $20
    '00 Impact #142 (have 2) - $1.50 each
    '00 Leaf Certified #239 (0266/1000) - $25
    '00 Leaf Rookies & Stars #139 (0863/1000) - $25
    '00 Pacific Omega #200 (123/500) - $20
    '00 Pacific Prism Prospects #171 (0268/1000) - $15
    '00 Skybox #205H (0402/2000) - $20
    '00 Stadium Club #152 - $6
    '00 Topps #387 - $6
    '00 Topps Gold Label Class 1 #82 - $3
    '00 Ultra Gold Medallion #226 - $12
    '00 Upper Deck #237 - $10
    '00 Upper Deck Ovation #66 (1790/2500) - $12
    '00 Upper Deck Ultimate Victory #96 (1698/2000) - $12
    '00 Upper Deck Ultimate Victory Parallel #96 - $12

    '00 Absolute Laveranues Coles #179 (1086/3000)
    '00 Absolute Dante Hall #233 (2324/3000)
    '00 Bowman Reserve Reuben Droughns #124 (219/999)
    '00 Donruss Ron Dayne #175 (1303/1325)
    '00 Donruss Elite Die-Cut Marc Bulger #182 (0204/2000)
    '00 E-X Tim Rattay #144 (1086/1500)
    '00 Fleer Greats of the Game Laveranues Coles #114 (0834/1500)
    '00 Fleer Greats of the Game Travis Prentice #120 (0934/1500)
    '00 Fleer Mystique Gold Ron Dayne #111
    '00 Impact Laveranues Coles #83
    '00 Private Stock Bubba Franks #120 (041/278)
    '00 SPx Shaun Ellis #124 (0855/1350)
    '00 Upper Deck Tim Rattay #240
    '00 Upper Deck Marc Bulger #228
    '00 Upper Deck Ovation Ron Dayne #69 (0226/2500)

    FOOTBALL ROOKIES (1999 and earlier):
    ’89 Pro Set Deion Sanders #486
    ’89 Pro Set Barry Sanders #494 - $6
    ’89 Topps Traded Barry Sanders #83T
    '94 SP Marshall Faulk #3
    '95 Bowman's Best Antonio Freeman #90
    '96 Absolute Marvin Harrison #47 - $3
    ’96 Upper Deck Rookies:
    #1 – Keyshawn Johnson
    #14 – Eddie George
    #18 – Marvin Harrison
    '97 SP Authentic Tony Gonzalez #11
    '97 SP Authentic Antowain Smith #19
    '97 Topps Chrome Jake Plummer #162
    '98 E-X2001 Randy Moss #55
    '98 E-X2001 Brian Griese #49
    '98 E-X2001 Hines Ward #47 - $10
    '98 E-X2001 Ahman Green #46
    '98 Finest Hines Ward #148 - $10
    '98 Flair Showcase Row 3 Randy Moss
    '98 Leaf Rookies and Stars Brian Griese #235
    '98 Leaf Rookies & Stars Hines Ward #202 - $25
    '98 Skybox Premium Randy Moss #240
    ’99 Bowman's Best Donovan McNabb #118
    '99 Flair Showcase Row 3 Peerless Price #187 (0849/1999)
    '99 Topps Gold Label Donovan McNabb #75 (have both Class 1 & 2)

  2. #2






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    '05 Playoff Prestige Andrew Walter #154
    '04 Playoff Honors Rookie Quads Larry Fitzgerald/DeAngelo Hall/Michael Jenkins/Matt Schaub (0917/1250)
    ’89 Topps Traded Barry Sanders #83T
    '96 Absolute Marvin Harrison #47
    '98 E-X2001 Hines Ward #47
    '98 Finest Hines Ward #148
    '98 Leaf Rookies & Stars Hines Ward #202

    interested in these depending on what you want for them. lmk when you can.

  3. #3




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    '05 Playoff Prestige Andrew Walter #154 - $4
    '04 Playoff Honors Rookie Quads Larry Fitzgerald/DeAngelo Hall/Michael Jenkins/Matt Schaub (0917/1250) - $8
    ’89 Topps Traded Barry Sanders #83T - $6
    '96 Absolute Marvin Harrison #47 - $3
    '98 E-X2001 Hines Ward #47 - $10
    '98 Finest Hines Ward #148 - $10
    '98 Leaf Rookies & Stars Hines Ward #202 - $25

    The cards you asked about book $66 combined. Could do them for $25 delivered. PLMK either way if interested. Thanks.

    Ira

  4. #4




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    How much dlvd for these.....

    Michael Vick Rookies:
    ’01 Fleer Game Time #111 (0826/2001)
    ’01 Fleer Premium #209 (0548/2001)
    '01 Pacific #515 (0129/1000)
    ’01 Quantum Leaf #201
    ’01 Topps Heritage #133 (0322/1956)
    '01 Upper Deck Ovation Rookie Gear Jersey

  5. #5




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    pm a price for all the Vick rc's

  6. #6






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    thanks for getting back to me. that's a little too high for what i want to pay. thanks though.

  7. #7





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    '05 Reflections Blue Will Matthews #121 (86/99)
    '04 Topps Chrome Black Refractor Sloan Thomas #270 (056/100)

    $5 shipped for both of these?

  8. #8




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    skins#1, nezarnino, PMs sent.

    gretzky, you are welcome to make a counter-offer if you think my asking price is too high. LMK.

  9. #9




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    Quote Originally Posted by RenegadeLonghorn
    '05 Reflections Blue Will Matthews #121 (86/99) - $8
    '04 Topps Chrome Black Refractor Sloan Thomas #270 (056/100) - $25

    $5 shipped for both of these?

    Those 2 cards book $33 ($13 on the low side). I'd sell them for $12 delivered. PLMK either way. Thanks.

  10. #10




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    '02 Donruss Classics Antwaan Randle-El #170 (0501/1000)

    '98 Leaf Rookies & Stars Hines Ward #202 - $25




    How much is the bv on the antwaan? And how much dlvd for both?

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