Sports Cards Store Owners

[Seablazer]

Ebay allows most of the collectors to buy products for around what we pay to stock them. That is not a pretty situation. Of course, the large card whoring operations sell direct to the public at wholesale prices as well. One such company is hugely popular here on the forum. Many shops have closed because they lost all their "whales" to these type of outfits.

I see no problem in places such as DCS and D&A selling at wholesale prices... Do we see super markets, delis, etc. complaining about BJ's wholesale, Costco, or Sam's club???

I find the whole argument that selling wholesale is bad quite ridiculous... We here at my house have plenty of reptiles, the amount of frozen rats and mice I go through is astronomical.. I have 2 reptile dedicated shops near by, but I never give them service for feeders because they are just as over priced as most of the cards shops in the area... When I can order 500+ frozen rats for the same price it would cost to buy 100+ from them, why should I waste my money?

I see it the same way with the local card shops... I will buy my packs there, but when it comes to boxes and cases, I will buy where I can get the most bang for my buck, and if that means hitting the wholsesalers on the net, or my favorite case dealer on ebay, so be it...

It's all about the all mighty dollar, if I can save somewhere, so be it...

Sorry to be so harsh, but back in the 90's, I was VERY fortunate to have an awesome card shop to deal with... Prices were VERY low compared to others... Then the owner died and his sons took over the business and prices were jacked up, it forced me out of collecting for many years... I just see it as purely capitalistic... Not only that the strongest survive, but the most business savy people survive (Net/Ebay wholesalers)....

[tomkatt]

Seablazer, yup and that is the exact attitude that has put so many shops out of business.

Where can I go to buy a new Ford for the same cost as the dealer? You don't see anything wrong with wholesale pricing to the public because it benefits you. In most legitimate retail environments, especially healthy ones, there is a distribution network.

Manufacturer pushes it to authorized distributor who then pushes it to the retail network. In the sportscard world, it goes from manufacturer to distributors who sell it right to you the collector. In most cases we no longer even fit into the equation.

I'm happy for you that you find the argument so ridiculous. It always makes me laugh to hear the term "jacked up prices." I've always found that what collectors view as a decent retail margin is a lot different than what we view it as. Of course, we are the ones with the overhead.

I'm sick and tired of having to apologize for needing to make a profit. Truth is you're probably right. It does come down to the almighty dollar. The big time operations you named will continue to sell their boxes for a minimal profit, making it up in volume. I will continue to try and service my customers, and smile at them when they ask why my box is priced higher than the magical website they found.

I don't expect those that buy from these sources to suddenly stop and say, "Golly I guess I shouldn't buy from here anymore." Our industry is responsible for what has happened, so it's obviously the direction that the major players want it to go in. I just hope everybody realizes why their small town shop closed. It's because we don't survive making $3-$5 per box profit.

[pwaldo]

Do we see super markets, delis, etc. complaining about BJ's wholesale, Costco, or Sam's club???

Those places all have a montly membership fee. You have to spend a lot each month to just get back all the money you "saved" by belonging to these places.
So you really can't compare them to an online store since you don't have to pay a membership fee. You can save a lot of money by going to these places but the majority of people that I see at these places don't buy enough or buy stuff that would be cheaper than going to a normal store.

And I can so see where the card shop owners have a problem with people saying "but on eBay I can get it for this" because that pisses me off when I get PM saying that. I don't really sell my cards but if somebody wants to buy something off of me I'll never stand in their way. But people on here will lowball you to hell with offers that are even lower than the cheapest card selling on eBay.

Since I'm not desperate to sell I'm not going to sell at desperate prices (IE: eBay). People seem to think that because some people on eBay are onloading a hot prospect at lower than normal prices because its the offseason that I'm expected to go down to what those people are selling at.

If you want to buy something at eBay's price THEN BUY IT ON EBAY. If you don't then there is a reason why your not buying it off of eBay and instead are trying to buy it through a different source.

[Seablazer]

I'm sick and tired of having to apologize for needing to make a profit. Truth is you're probably right. It does come down to the almighty dollar. The big time operations you named will continue to sell their boxes for a minimal profit, making it up in volume. I will continue to try and service my customers, and smile at them when they ask why my box is priced higher than the magical website they found.

I don't expect those that buy from these sources to suddenly stop and say, "Golly I guess I shouldn't buy from here anymore." Our industry is responsible for what has happened, so it's obviously the direction that the major players want it to go in. I just hope everybody realizes why their small town shop closed. It's because we don't survive making $3-$5 per box profit.

I understand places having to make a profit... As I said in my previous post, I still do buy packs, supplies, and Beckett from my local shop and spend a ton of money doing it... For instance, today I spent $50 on supplies and $105 on packs...

Everyone has to make money, but when it comes to packs I will pay whatever aslong as it is not outlandish. But, when I bought my case of 2006 Topps I had to make a choice, spend $850 at the local card shop or $500 through a "whale stealing" shop....

I figure this, every weekend I'm at the hobby shop spending money on packs/supplies, usually spend over $150... I would like to save my money on some occasions...

Here are the prices that get me a little annoyed...
05 Absolute Memo. Update:
D & A: 119.95
DCS: $129.95
Flea Market: $140.00
Ebay: $130-160
Local Shop 1: $185
Local Shop 2: $199

I understand that some the top two are pretty big buyers, so they can sell cheaper, but the Flea Market guys don't buy much and still sell cheap...

Local Shop 2 is where I spend most of my money... They are at EVERY card show, have an ebay account where they sell some extremely high end (+$1000) cards, and pretty much blow through product like there is no tomorrow at their own card shop.... I know for a fact that they along with 5 other stores (2 in Ohio, 1 in Virginia, and 2 in New Jersey) buy cases together to get good deals, but they still insist on keeping the prices high...

That is what aggravates me...

When I go to smaller shows around the area, I even get great deals.. My last box of Absolute BB cost $135, and that was from a guy who has a REAL small shop in Long Beach, NY...

I can really see making 20-25 per box, but when prices start getting much higher (for example, Leaf LImited FB is $89 in my local shops), it forces people to look elsewhere.

[golfermatt91]

my local card shop i go to has absolute update at 119.00 which doesnt seem bad compared to most places

[tutall]

The only problem with this conversation is what happens if Ebay disappears and everyone has to go back to the card shops... prices increase and it forces more people out of the hobby... the low prices on ebay is still too much for many people to get into the hpbby and raise the prices even more means less people collect... I love going to my local card shop to chat and deal but honestly i spend very little money in there even with the prices he gives me for buying as much as i do because i can still get it cheaper elsewhere.

[pwaldo]

The only problem with this conversation is what happens if Ebay disappears and everyone has to go back to the card shops... prices increase and it forces more people out of the hobby... the low prices on ebay is still too much for many people to get into the hpbby and raise the prices even more means less people collect... I love going to my local card shop to chat and deal but honestly i spend very little money in there even with the prices he gives me for buying as much as i do because i can still get it cheaper elsewhere.

I don't think anybody wants eBay to go away.

I love it. I like to buy on it and I love to sell on it.

But when I want to buy something for eBay's price I go to eBay. When I want to sell something for eBay's price I go to eBay.

But some people have a blurred sense of reality and suddenly think EVERY PLACE is like eBay and expect stuff to cost and sell for that amount everywhere. When that's not the case.

eBay is great but not everything is eBay and everything shouldn't be eBay.

And I would like to make one last comment as there are thousands of people on eBay who are STUPID and they know NOTHING about running a business or making money. There are so many people on eBay that must take huge losses on stuff and they continue to do it. They are the people who buy a case for $2000 and then open it (find out they haven't hit a Babe Ruth cut autograph) and then sell it all on eBay. They will be lucky to get $1000 for it all and that means that they basically just lost $1000 in a matter of minutes but they continue doing it. They blame the card companies, they blame the bidders, and they blame outside factors as the cause for why they are losing money when in reality it is their own fault as they know nothing about the business aspect of sports cards.

If you could make a profit from opening up cases or boxes then EVERYONE would be doing it. (There's a reason why the card companies sell the cards in packs where you don't know what your getting).

These people flood the eBay market with too many cards and people assume that all cards are alike. If autograph card from set A is selling for $25 then they want autograph card from set B for that amount regardless if its a more expensive product or is tougher to find. That's why Donruss flooding the market with 1/1 cards left and right took down the value of all the 1/1 cards even if Topps, Fleer, or Upper Deck kept them at 1998 levels. People go "Hey a 1/1 is a 1/1" so why should a pay $100 more for an Upper Deck 1/1 when I can get a 1/1 from Diamond Kings for $15.

These are the people that "bring down the value" of your cards and make them sell for less money. They are why cards don't bring any reasonable amount of money because they are so easy to find even if they are rare.

People for some reason in the Internet age have forgotten the "buy low and sell high" way of thinking and suddenly they just do whatever wacky stuff they want. They sell expensive baseball cards of star players in the dead of winter when everyone is focused on football cards. Why people do this is beyond me? Unless you need the money right this second why would you sell something that will bring you less money in the offseason as opposed to the regular season?

With that being said you can still turn a profit easily with cards...its just a lot harder to do because you have to look for trends and jump on them before they become popular. Most people jump on stuff when it becomes popular and if they are looking for a profit they are most likely the ones to be burned down the road. So I always laugh when somebody says that X product is worthless or that nobody is buying Y cards because those people are obviously not looking or trying hard enough.

And to tie this back in with card shops you would not believe how many cards I've bought at a card shop that I have sold on eBay for more money than I paid. Its just insane. Most people though don't know what to look for and they assume that everything in a shop is "too high" or "expensive" when sometimes it can be the best place to look for deals.

[tutall]

i do the same this pwaldo.... they have a bargain bin at my shop that has inserts and GU in it for a buck or two.... all commons but someone on here or ebay will pay a fwe bucks for it so i dont turn a huge profit but a few bucks here and there.... i think the only way to bust cases and make money is with bowman chrome.. sell the hot rookies now and hold onto the rest for when they make it to the show.. if they dont make it sell them later to someone who collects low end rcs and you an usually make your money back... there is a lot of money in those boxes....

[tomkatt]

Oh no! What if a technological smart bomb took out the bay?? Well let's see, I opened up in 1992. Mine was the first full time card store within about a two hour drive. Here's what it was like:

I had plenty of customers coming through my door, even though my store was 1/10 the size it is now. Collectors built sets, traded with each other, & flocked to our little shows. I could pay 50% or more for just about anything decent that customers brought in. My customers could not routinely find the products that I sell at my cost or below.

Now let's hurry on to 2006. How have things changed? Store traffic has dwindled down to nothing in comparison. No matter what I try, I can't get enough collectors to trade with each other. Set building is nonexistent, and card shows are no more in our area. I can rarely buy cards from my customers. How can I? I can't get anything more than 20-25% for most singles now. I don't have people lining up to sell their cards at 10% of book.

I realize times have changed and will never be the same. I know this generation of collector would drop dead of cardboard shock if the direct to the public market disappeared.... or heaven forbid the all powerful bay came up page not found in the 'ol internet browser. It's becoming all too apparent that hobby shops are a thing of the past.

Please don't act like the sports card market would be plunged into the stone age without these things though. It would be more inconvenient sure, but the sports card market was strong long before these modern goodies came along. People saved their money and flocked to the National, and to a lesser degree their local shows. Hobby shops were a popular hang out. Trust me it was fun.

I talked to a couple dealer friends of mine about this thread we have going. They asked me why I even bother reading this type of stuff. They said that the majority here will always be anti-card shop. I have to say whenever I read these type of threads here, there is plenty of that sentiment to go around. I don't blame you really. It's just a result of how the market has changed with Ebay and the card ™™™™™s. You're comfortable in your buying habits, and view our shops as nice places to buy penny sleeves..... but not to make a major purchase.

Truth be told, most shops can't survive on the margins that you can purchase your products for now. Obviously many have not. I was told by a customer the other day, after he visited the Minnesota area, how "lucky" I am to still have a shop. I guess most shops that were listed in that area are no longer there. I don't see it as luck. I've always had the utmost appreciation and respect for my customers spending their hard earned money with me.

It's impossible to see into the future. I hope to stay in business with my brick n mortar store, but who knows? I've lost many many customers to the technological wizardry of today's market. All I ask is this. Please realize how important your business is to your local shop. I think sometimes people don't realize just how crucial their patronage is to our stores. If some of my customers would come in even once or twice more per month, it would make a huge difference.

Many of you have posted that you enjoy going to your local shop to shoot the breeze. I will say that that's one of my favorite things about being a shop owner. I feel blessed to have owned and operated a full time card shop in a VERY small town (pop. 7,000) for nearly 14 years. It's been more difficult recently for sure, but it never gets old. Sorry for the long post, but I want all of you to know that not all of us are wanna-be crooks looking to empty your wallets. The competition is stacked against us, and we are all doing our best to stay profitable.

Take care & happy collecting. -Tom