Girl who performed at Obama's inauguration gunned down a week later in Chicago

[centrehice]

I highly doubt it. The NRA is indirectly responsible for taking away all their power, making sure they never have a full time head and the NRA is basically saying the ATF isn't doing their job now. Doesn't sound hand in glove to me. They don't have a head of the department, so what hand? What glove?



That's for certain.

Wick:

It's funny how times change. The Tobacco Lobby used to be the biggest lobby in North America. Promoting the tobacco trade is now Political Suicide and has been for well over 15 years in Canada, and about 10 years in America. The lobby is now not large at all.

When the Tobacco Lobby was strong, our lobbyists on both sides of the border were the most generous toward the problem politicians, by being nice guy....... that's where I am getting the Lobby Money well spent. Candy wins people over more than fighting and biitching.

The NRA only has to show the ATF that they think they give a damn, Perhaps they are ATF back-slappers, but you can bet that there is money well spent by the NRA in convincing the ATF that they are doing a bang-up job, or helping them to relieve a little stress by having some fun at their expense.

The Oil Industry and it's lobby is now facing the very same issue as the Tobacco Lobby did in the late 80's. The Oil Lobby is the largest in the USA, followed by the Pharmaceutical Lobby.

Once it becomes Political Suicide to side with Big Oil (and that day will come), they will continue to control their livelihood with well spent dollars on cronyism, patronage, big cheques to whomever and friendliness to those who continue to curry their favour.

The day for the Gun Lobby, like the Tobacco Lobby has come and gone in Canada, they aren't even on the radar screen, and Big Oil is the next target.

The 2nd Amendment in the US will never reduce the need to not spend righteous gun dollars, and the NRA will never lose power in our lifetime

[tpeichel]

I'm pretty sure it wasn't a Democrat who slipped "Congress appoints the head of the ATF into a spending bill.
For 6 years, the ATF has not had a full time head. So no, they didnt operate under the same conditions in 04.
Was it a Democrat who said "We shouldn't allow the ATF to require gun dealers to keep proper inventory"?

The President makes the appointment. He should have been able to appoint someone within a six year time frame that our elected representatives would approve.

Of course the ATF can't make their own laws for gun dealers. The ATF doesn't make laws, Congress does.

[Wickabee]

The President makes the appointment. He should have been able to appoint someone within a six year time frame that our elected representatives would approve.

Wrong. Congress appoints. The ATF is the only Bureau with this stipulation. Weird, huh?

Of course the ATF can't make their own laws for gun dealers. The ATF doesn't make laws, Congress does.

Who said anything about making their own laws? You realize you live in a nation where guin dealers have absolutely no reason to keep a proper inventory, right? Does that make sense to you?

[FioreSA]

I don't think it is fair to focus on the government or government agencies as fault for not controlling violence. I still go back to switzerland who has an insanely high gun to population ratio. They have automatic weapons and one of the lowest homicide rates.

One thing I am noticing that they do very different, is that they teach nearly all citizens about proper gun safety and proper use. With having guns should come education. Yes, there are problems with mental health and people are violent, but with proper education, proper use, and awareness, I think the overall numbers would drop.

Government Agencies have issues enforcing due to the reasons that Wickabee pointed out. I think the citizens of the country need to take responsibility and become more educated and the numbers will drop dramatically.

[Wickabee]

You don't think it's fair to point out a government agency can't do its job because of government interference?
Why?

[FioreSA]

expecting an agency like the ATF to control the vast amount of states and cities, is a model for failure. It isn't gonna stop Johnny "Bath Salt Delirious" from walking into a school and lighting up a bunch of kids. It is a cultural problem. Respecting weapons and not being in fear of them, will allow the public to take responsibility and halt mr. bath salts with their own force preventing the problem, or Johnny wouldn't think that using a gun wildly would be a good idea in the first place, due to an upbringing that emphasizes the proper respect and use of guns.

Same concept as countries with lower or no drinking age have less DUI's as it isn't a big deal and education starts young.

[mrveggieman]

expecting an agency like the ATF to control the vast amount of states and cities, is a model for failure. It isn't gonna stop Johnny "Bath Salt Delirious" from walking into a school and lighting up a bunch of kids. It is a cultural problem. Respecting weapons and not being in fear of them, will allow the public to take responsibility and halt mr. bath salts with their own force preventing the problem, or Johnny wouldn't think that using a gun wildly would be a good idea in the first place, due to an upbringing that emphasizes the proper respect and use of guns.

Same concept as countries with lower or no drinking age have less DUI's as it isn't a big deal and education starts young.

CHURCH!!

[Wickabee]

expecting an agency like the ATF to control the vast amount of states and cities, is a model for failure. It isn't gonna stop Johnny "Bath Salt Delirious" from walking into a school and lighting up a bunch of kids. It is a cultural problem. Respecting weapons and not being in fear of them, will allow the public to take responsibility and halt mr. bath salts with their own force preventing the problem, or Johnny wouldn't think that using a gun wildly would be a good idea in the first place, due to an upbringing that emphasizes the proper respect and use of guns.

Same concept as countries with lower or no drinking age have less DUI's as it isn't a big deal and education starts young.

Fair enough. Thing is, you have the NRA meddling with the ATF to make sure they have no power, no staff and no head, then turning around and saying, "We don't need new gun laws. The ATF needs to do a better job."

[FioreSA]

Fair enough. Thing is, you have the NRA meddling with the ATF to make sure they have no power, no staff and no head, then turning around and saying, "We don't need new gun laws. The ATF needs to do a better job."

but the NRA is formed of Citizens. The reason the NRA has it's power is because of the membership. It is not mandatory as it is voluntary. To me that means that the people support the NRA. I am not a member, but I am a veteran.

but I agree the meddling is bad form, but to stop this and realign their interests, members of the NRA need to leave and voice the reason why. If not, things won't change much, since there is a vested interest. I am not in favor of beefing up the ATF massively as I see it as a large amount of money being spent, when this country needs to be focusing on cutting cost and spending more wisely. I look at the DEA as an example and how much money is spent there, without much results. I don't want the ATF to turn into the DEA as I see it more of a drain on our economy.

I would rather take both of those agencies budgets and spread it into local law enforcement. Give the cops more money, so they can pay current cops higher salary and higher more head count. I see far more results from the local authorities as they are the men on the front lines. Yes, the ATF and DEA get some big busts, but I think a 100 small busts around the country > 1 big bust. It spreads the results so everyone can feel safer. Also, there is a chance the local police can hit a homerun as well. I donno, I would feel much safer knowing that the gang unit in my local police station recieved more funding, rather than the ATF getting 1000 heads.

I just see the war on drugs as a failure and I don't want to start the war on guns. I'd rather have the build better gang units in local law enforcement movement.

This is just my opinion and $0.02 (i'm not a cop or affiliated with local law enforcement).

[Wickabee]

The NRA is made up of some people, not the people. To say the views of the NRA reflect the general consensus of the society is kind of ludicrous. The reason it has the power it does is because of a few influential members, not because it's a membership of the people.

Frankly, I don't blame the NRA. They do what I expect any lobby group to. It's the politicians who give up their opportunity to lead the nation for a party and a plaque.

The comparison to the war on drugs (collosal failure, I agree) is an interesting one.