Appearing At Frozen Pond This Wednesday: Ray Bourque

[Leafsfan1967]

For those of you in the Toronto area this Wednesday August 14th that would love to meet HOF defenseman Ray Bourque, and/or pick up an autograph, he will be signing at the Frozen Pond store in Vaughan this Wednesday August 14th between the hours of 6pm and 7pm. For those that cannot attend, and need a signed item, you can mail order whatever you need usually up until the start of the event, just email, or call the store with your request. I will post the pricing below so you can get an idea on the cost. Shipping on mail orders are extra, as are inscriptions. Personalizations are free. In-store pricing is for the autograph only on your item, and does not include the pucks, photos etc. They are available for sale at the signing. Blank 8X10's, and pucks are $7 each, I think?




In-Store Signing Fees

Flat Items ........... $49 CDN
Bulky Items ......... $65 CDN
Inscriptions ......... $10 CDN


Mail Order Pricing

Our Items

Autographed 8X10 Photo (Bos/Col) ...............$62 CDN



Autographed 16X20 Photo (Bos/Col) .............$85 CDN



Autographed Puck (Bos/Col) ........................$62 CDN



Autographed Stanley Cup Banner .................$85 CDN



Autographed 2' Stanley Cup ........................$399 CDN



Autographed Stick .....................................$139 CDN



Autographed Bruins Replica Jersey ..............$279 CDN


Personalizations .........................................FREE



Inscriptions (for mail order, up to 3 words) ....$15


Your Items

Your flat item .............................................$59 CDN



Your bulky item ..........................................$75 CDN

[mooneyes]

ole Ray needs a new Ferrari?? :/

[centrehice]

Ray has taken lessons from the Colleen Howe school of maximization.

[cmbmls]

I think the crazy prices are more due to Frozen Pond then they are to Ray Bourque. FP's prices are usually 20-50% higher than other places.

Gordie Howe was at Dave & Adam's summer sale in Buffalo, and the cost for a signed 8x10 was $89 (photo included - $92 CDN at current rates). FP's price for an 8x10 (a "medium" item, in their book) is $149 CDN - more than 50% higher. Same thing with Stamkos. When he appeared at the Dave & Adams summer sale an 8x10 was $49 (photo included). At Frozen Pond the same 8x10 was $79 CDN ($76 US). Same with Martin Brodeur - a 16x20 photo from Dave & Adam's is $74.95. FP's price is $119 CDN ($114 US).

[centrehice]

Fairy Nuff ....

It could easily be the companies greed, as he probably gets a flat fee per item, for his likeness and signature.

[Leafsfan1967]

I think the crazy prices are more due to Frozen Pond then they are to Ray Bourque. FP's prices are usually 20-50% higher than other places.

Gordie Howe was at Dave & Adam's summer sale in Buffalo, and the cost for a signed 8x10 was $89 (photo included - $92 CDN at current rates). FP's price for an 8x10 (a "medium" item, in their book) is $149 CDN - more than 50% higher. Same thing with Stamkos. When he appeared at the Dave & Adams summer sale an 8x10 was $49 (photo included). At Frozen Pond the same 8x10 was $79 CDN ($76 US). Same with Martin Brodeur - a 16x20 photo from Dave & Adam's is $74.95. FP's price is $119 CDN ($114 US).

You really have no clue what you're talking about. You are comparing in-store signing prices to after signing prices. Frozen Pond charges $99 an auto when Howe is there signing. That is what he charges them. He originally wanted $149 with his wife Colleen was running things years ago. They were talked down to $99, and have been the same price ever since. They make their money from selling blank photos, and pucks, and afterwards on the extra inventory. Why shouldn't they make a profit? They take all the risk. It also costs more to have him come up to Canada. FP would have to pay for his travel, hotel, and food etc. That has to be factored into the prices.

Every company charges more afterwards, because they are sitting forever on autos already paid for, and their money is tied up for a long time. If it doesn't sell, they lose. I see you don't tell us how much Howe, and others autos are now at D+A? I'll bet they aren't the prices you've quoted in your post. There are also other factors, like perhaps Howe was already gonna be in Buffalo, so he could offer a cheaper rate to D+A? Those of you that aren't privy to the proper information, should make guesses as to how someone's business operates. If you don't like the prices, show it by not buying from them, not mouthing off where they can't respond to you.

Ovechkin charged $15 grand to appear at FP. If nobody shows up, they take the loss, not you, or me, and certainly not Ovy. That's a lot of coin to fork out for 2 hours of his time.

I'm not saying Frozen Pond is the cheapest out there, but those who question their pricing, should take a look at Steiner Sports' price list, or AJ's before you bad-mouth them, and I can name others, too. Have you tried looking at Frameworth's pricing? Truth is, they are all expensive. You can blame the athletes, and their agents. They are the ones who demand these rediculous amounts. Truth is, the athletes don't need the money, so unless they get a substantial amount to appear, they'd rather spend their time doing other things.

Anyone who'd like to discuss this further with me, I can give you all sorts of stories. Like for example how FP had to pay for Chris Chelios to fly from California with his kid to Minnesota to drop him at hockey camp, then fly him to Toronto for the signing. Limo him to the store, and back to the Royl York Hotel, and then limo him back to the airport, and fly him back to Minnesota, then California. They had to pay for all that, and his food, or not have him in. Then people blame the company for not selling his auto for $5 bucks. Then you have cheap pukes like Jaromir Jagr who had a pen, and paper beside him, and made a tick mark for every auto he signed, so he didn't get ripped off for any. Really dude? $7 million a year, and you're worried about not getting paid for every last signature? Like I said, if you don't know all the facts involved, then maybe you should keep opinions to yourself? Your price comparisons aren't even valid.

FYI: I don't work for FP, but am a long time customer.

[cmbmls]

So first off - I'm sorry you were so offended by my post. My intent wasn't to offend FP customers, but to simply point out my experience. That said, I'm happy to supply facts to back up my experience.

You really have no clue what you're talking about. You are comparing in-store signing prices to after signing prices.

I actually do know exactly what I am talking about. I've been collecting autographs at rinks & shows since the late 80s.

The Brodeur signing was a private signing for Dave & Adams at their Buffalo warehouse. D&A took pre-orders for that signing in exactly the same manner as Frozen Pond is doing for their upcoming Brodeur signing. I used that pre-order price (which was the same post-signing) to compare to FP's pre-order price. Same - same. FP's pre-order price of $114 US is 50% higher than D&A's $75 pre-order price.

The Howe comparison was for an in-person signing at the Tonawanda Dave & Adams, vs the in-person "medium" price taken from the Fan Expo 2013 website, since a "small" is defined as a puck or a card. D&A: $89 in person (item included), Fan Expo "medium": $149 CDN ($144 US).

The same trend is seen for after signing items. Let's look at a Stamkos 8x10 from both places (Stamkos was in-store @ the Niagara Falls NY Dave & Adams & @ Frozen Pond's Vaughan store in the summer of 2011). The 8x10 at D&A's is available online today for $63 (with UDA authentication included - a $15 upcharge if you had gotten it at the D&A in-person signing). At Frozen Pond, without UDA, the photo is $79 CDN ($76 US). That's 20% higher than on D&A's site, without the UDA authentication. Said another way, D&A's product provides a better recognized COA, and is 20% cheaper. Which would you pick?

Every company charges more afterwards, because they are sitting forever on autos already paid for, and their money is tied up for a long time. If it doesn't sell, they lose. I see you don't tell us how much Howe, and others autos are now at D+A? I'll bet they aren't the prices you've quoted in your post.

Frankly, I would expect to pay more because I don't have to (1) pay to get into the show, and then (2) wait in line for an hour + to get the autograph. Even still, looking at post-signing prices for similar items, my argument holds true.

The Stamkos 8x10 I mentioned earlier is one example (Frozen Pond is 20% higher), but there are numerous others.

At the Howe signing a 16x20 was $125 (photo not included). A 16x20 photo at the event was $50. Total $175 @ the event. After the show the same photo is online for $205 (but with UDA). Frozen pond's online price for similar photo is $219 CDN without UDA. The ticket to have your own 16x20 photo signed @ Fan Expo 2013 is $299 CDN, photo not included. Assuming the photo doesn't go up a dime after the show, that's still more than double the D&A in-person fee.

Phil & Tony Esposito are another example. A post-signing Phil 8x10 is $32, Tony is $36 @ D&A's. Both are $49 CDN each from Frozen Pond ($47.50 US) for the EXACT same photos (same poses). FP is 50% higher for Phil, 30% higher for Tony.

Red Kelly signed puck is another - $25 @ D&A's, $34 CDN @ Frozen Pond ($33 US) - 30% higher.

Milt Schmidt signed photo - $36 @ D&A's for a 16x20, $38 US @ FP for an 8x10. Smaller item, $2 more!

Johnny Bower 16x20 - $36 @ D&A's, $48 US @ FP - 33% higher.

Patrick Roy Replica Jersey (MTL) - $266 @ D&A's (CCM replica), $358 US @ FP (Reebok Replica) - 35% higher. Here I think D&A wins with the CCM replica with an era-accurate cut, over the more modern cut Reebok replica.

There are also other factors, like perhaps Howe was already gonna be in Buffalo, so he could offer a cheaper rate to D+A?

So did all of the players I mentioned above just happen to already be coming to Buffalo so D&A could charge 20-50% less? I'm not buying the "he was already going to be in town" argument.

Ovechkin charged $15 grand to appear at FP. If nobody shows up, they take the loss, not you, or me, and certainly not Ovy. That's a lot of coin to fork out for 2 hours of his time.

Isn't it the same risk for both FP & D&A? One could easily argue that the risk for a place like D&A is greater because Buffalo is nowhere near as big a Hockey market as Toronto. And to answer your point specifically - if nobody shows up, you can bet FP will have Ovi busy signing photos for the entire two hours, that they could later sell online to recoup their investment. 500 signatures @ $30 per would be their break even point, and you know they wouldn't sell an Ovi 8x10 for $30 - prolly more like $90.

I'm not saying Frozen Pond is the cheapest out there, but those who question their pricing, should take a look at Steiner Sports' price list, or AJ's before you bad-mouth them...

To be clear - I am not bad mouthing Frozen Pond. I simply pointed out the difference in recent prices in a very similar region (within a 60 or so mile radius), based solely on my experience and the facts at hand. Whether people choose to pay Frozen Pond's prices is totally up to them, and if Frozen Pond gets the turnout they need to cover their costs - great for them. I have absolutely made the drive from Buffalo to attend Frozen Pond signings, because they definitely do have more players in-store than places like Dave & Adam's do. That said - because of the delta in prices, I don't go to Frozen Pond as often as I used to. Do they usually run a good signing - absolutely. Are they usually on the pricey side - in my experience, absolutely. Are their prices as bad as AJ's? Absolutely not - I totally agree with you there.

Like I said, if you don't know all the facts involved, then maybe you should keep opinions to yourself? Your price comparisons aren't even valid.

That's the beautiful thing with opinions - I have mine, you have yours, and we can agree to disagree - though I think the facts above prove my comparisons are very valid.
I don't respect you less, simply because you like to pay 20-50% more for an item than I do (just kidding).

FYI: I don't work for FP, but am a long time customer.

Nor do I work for Dave & Adam's. I am, in fact, a customer of both places.

[Leafsfan1967]

So first off - I'm sorry you were so offended by my post. My intent wasn't to offend FP customers, but to simply point out my experience. That said, I'm happy to supply facts to back up my experience.



I actually do know exactly what I am talking about. I've been collecting autographs at rinks & shows since the late 80s.

The Brodeur signing was a private signing for Dave & Adams at their Buffalo warehouse. D&A took pre-orders for that signing in exactly the same manner as Frozen Pond is doing for their upcoming Brodeur signing. I used that pre-order price (which was the same post-signing) to compare to FP's pre-order price. Same - same. FP's pre-order price of $114 US is 50% higher than D&A's $75 pre-order price.

The Howe comparison was for an in-person signing at the Tonawanda Dave & Adams, vs the in-person "medium" price taken from the Fan Expo 2013 website, since a "small" is defined as a puck or a card. D&A: $89 in person (item included), Fan Expo "medium": $149 CDN ($144 US).

The same trend is seen for after signing items. Let's look at a Stamkos 8x10 from both places (Stamkos was in-store @ the Niagara Falls NY Dave & Adams & @ Frozen Pond's Vaughan store in the summer of 2011). The 8x10 at D&A's is available online today for $63 (with UDA authentication included - a $15 upcharge if you had gotten it at the D&A in-person signing). At Frozen Pond, without UDA, the photo is $79 CDN ($76 US). That's 20% higher than on D&A's site, without the UDA authentication. Said another way, D&A's product provides a better recognized COA, and is 20% cheaper. Which would you pick?




Frankly, I would expect to pay more because I don't have to (1) pay to get into the show, and then (2) wait in line for an hour + to get the autograph. Even still, looking at post-signing prices for similar items, my argument holds true.

The Stamkos 8x10 I mentioned earlier is one example (Frozen Pond is 20% higher), but there are numerous others.

At the Howe signing a 16x20 was $125 (photo not included). A 16x20 photo at the event was $50. Total $175 @ the event. After the show the same photo is online for $205 (but with UDA). Frozen pond's online price for similar photo is $219 CDN without UDA. The ticket to have your own 16x20 photo signed @ Fan Expo 2013 is $299 CDN, photo not included. Assuming the photo doesn't go up a dime after the show, that's still more than double the D&A in-person fee.

Phil & Tony Esposito are another example. A post-signing Phil 8x10 is $32, Tony is $36 @ D&A's. Both are $49 CDN each from Frozen Pond ($47.50 US) for the EXACT same photos (same poses). FP is 50% higher for Phil, 30% higher for Tony.

Red Kelly signed puck is another - $25 @ D&A's, $34 CDN @ Frozen Pond ($33 US) - 30% higher.

Milt Schmidt signed photo - $36 @ D&A's for a 16x20, $38 US @ FP for an 8x10. Smaller item, $2 more!

Johnny Bower 16x20 - $36 @ D&A's, $48 US @ FP - 33% higher.

Patrick Roy Replica Jersey (MTL) - $266 @ D&A's (CCM replica), $358 US @ FP (Reebok Replica) - 35% higher. Here I think D&A wins with the CCM replica with an era-accurate cut, over the more modern cut Reebok replica.



So did all of the players I mentioned above just happen to already be coming to Buffalo so D&A could charge 20-50% less? I'm not buying the "he was already going to be in town" argument.



Isn't it the same risk for both FP & D&A? One could easily argue that the risk for a place like D&A is greater because Buffalo is nowhere near as big a Hockey market as Toronto. And to answer your point specifically - if nobody shows up, you can bet FP will have Ovi busy signing photos for the entire two hours, that they could later sell online to recoup their investment. 500 signatures @ $30 per would be their break even point, and you know they wouldn't sell an Ovi 8x10 for $30 - prolly more like $90.



To be clear - I am not bad mouthing Frozen Pond. I simply pointed out the difference in recent prices in a very similar region (within a 60 or so mile radius), based solely on my experience and the facts at hand. Whether people choose to pay Frozen Pond's prices is totally up to them, and if Frozen Pond gets the turnout they need to cover their costs - great for them. I have absolutely made the drive from Buffalo to attend Frozen Pond signings, because they definitely do have more players in-store than places like Dave & Adam's do. That said - because of the delta in prices, I don't go to Frozen Pond as often as I used to. Do they usually run a good signing - absolutely. Are they usually on the pricey side - in my experience, absolutely. Are their prices as bad as AJ's? Absolutely not - I totally agree with you there.



That's the beautiful thing with opinions - I have mine, you have yours, and we can agree to disagree - though I think the facts above prove my comparisons are very valid.
I don't respect you less, simply because you like to pay 20-50% more for an item than I do (just kidding).



Nor do I work for Dave & Adam's. I am, in fact, a customer of both places.

Again, I'm telling you that you do not have all the facts. I agree with some of what you are saying, but let me just tell you this about a couple of the guys you mentioned. I really don't feel like going back, and forth with you, so this will be my last response to you. You quote prices for Howe at the fan expo, so I'll touch on that. Did you know that he is very sick with dementia, and most days he only has 5-10 minutes where he remembers anything? He also can barely sign his own name some days, and he even has to be helped in that regard. This comes from his son Marty, so I know it to be true. Could that be why his auto is now at $149, instead of the usual $99? Enjoy it now, because he won't be able to sign at all anymore in the very near future.

You compare prices with Bower. I didn't look it up, but I'll assume you are correct. What you don't say is that you can get that Bower auto for a mere $10 at the public signing, Duff, Kelly, Shack, Baun etc. are $15. I'd assume Vanek, Miller etc. are cheap at signings in Buffalo, and would be more if they came to Toronto. If it wasn't that way, I'd be firing my agent. Makes sense, right? It's a lot closer to Buffalo for Brodeur to go than to Toronto, so it makes sense he'd be cheaper there.

Dave and Adams is a card dealer that has ventured into autographed signings. Frozen Pond is strictly a hockey memoribilia company. D+A have sales, because they most likely don't have the market to hold firm on prices for very long. Sitting on hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of mem may not be pheasable for them, IMO. Frozen Pond obviously have no problems selling what they sell at the prices they sell at, or they wouldn't be in business. They have the market to do so, Buffalo does not.

I don't even really want to comment on the D+A's COA is more recognizable than FP. To you, maybe? I wouldn't even put them in the top 5, but that's just me. When I think of signed memorabilia, I think of Steiner Sports, Frozen Pond, Frameworth Marketing, AJ's, Mounted Memories, NHL Ink, and Tristar before D+A's. Let's not even discuss how much Steiner, and Frameworth charge for autos. A replica (not a pro, a replica) Team Canada jersey like Crosby wore when he scored the GWG on Miller will set you back just under $1100 taxes in at Frameworth. Check out how much Steiner charges for Brodeur autos. Just a couple examples. I could go on forever.

I know a lot more about the behind the scenes stuff than most people, because I get special privledges from FP. I never have to wait in line for my autos, and most of the time don't have to pay. I'm lucky, I know. I got to sit with Hasek's limo driver, and shoot the breeze for 2 hours when he was in. He was trying to score a bottle of whisky for him, and Dom for after the show, but it was too late at night to get one. I also got to spend time in the back with Howe's grandson (think it was Mark's kid whichever one works for the Flyers), and he told me how he goes fishing with his grandpa (Gordie) in Hartford all the time. I also got to sit with Bobby Hull for over an hour while he signed the store inventory before the show. I got to chat with Jeff O'Neill for a half hour a week after his brother was killed in a car accident, and learned about how a lot of players refuse to sign for Upper Deck, because they never got paid from previous stints. I get my autographs to take home, but these little perks make it all that much sweeter for me.

The players, and their agents are greedy. They know that people will pay rediculous amounts for their auto, and they laugh all the way to the bank. The companies that provide this service do get a bad wrap for the most part. It's no wonder they gouge people after the fact.

I can't say too much about the signing prices, because I've been told in confidence, but I will tell you one more, and then I'm out of this thread. The first time FP brought in Ovechkin they were charging $39 CDN for a flat auto (flats to them are photos any size, books, magazines, pucks, cards, Mcfarlane bases etc) Bulky items are always more (sticks, jerseys, skates, helmets, gloves, pads etc.) I don't recall the bulky price, but out of the $39, $38 went to Ovechkin. FP made $1 per auto that's it. They were $79 the next day. It's not uncommon to raise it 30-50% after the signing. Most of the companies do this. That's how they stay in business.

[cmbmls]

Again, my intent wasn't to offend Frozen Pond friends and family, and given your relationship to them I respect your insight and understand why someone with such a relationship would feel the need to defend them. That said - I think you let that relationship cloud how you read my initial comments. My comments were price to consumer. Period. I too have stories of time spent with my Hockey idols, conversations, etc., but those stories don't change how much money actually departs my wallet for a specific item. And based on my experience (which I have evidenced with real prices, for real items), Frozen Pond is more expensive than a regional competitor. That doesn't make the folks at Frozen Pond bad people, and I in no way bad mouthed them. Whether that cost difference is due to logistics, overhead, ability to negotiate, player greed, or their greed, that doesn't change my experience as a consumer - the same item for the same player costs me more money if I buy it from Frozen Pond.