Panini done?

[JVW]

The value isn't there for Panini because the demand isn't there. Why the demand isn't there? No idea, they make way nicer cards than UD.

I wonder and agree with you. I have bought far more Panini cards since 10-11 than UD.

[Yzerfan]

I have no horse in this race. I swore off 'licensed' products a while ago. I only bust ITG boxes now. ITG are the only ones that actually care about the hobby. I will agree though that Panini makes some fantastic looking cards. Much better than UD in many ways.

[Fred Bear]

You missed the point. There are some of us who enjoyed opening the Panini products and some of us were also hoping that ITG was going to get a license. If you go back and read the thread you will see that many believe they are only getting a good ROI out of Upper Deck and that seems to be all that is important to them.

I guess I read the thread differently. Some collectors liked Panini and some didn't. I liked them but I also prefer consistency in what I collect. I tried Score as an alternative/addition to OPC. Great value in 2010-11, but terrible collation issues. I don't know if I even put together 1 complete set in a case (definitely not with SSP RCs of which I got 4, 2 duplicates, in a 20-box case). They changed the format of the SSP RCs in 2011-12, and with the improvements to collation - it seemed much better. 2012-13 was miserable with no SSPs and less parallels to a case. I gave up in 2013-14 when they doubled the price out of the gate and changed the 'format' again (and, I'm sure will release half the 'dual class' as inserts in Rookie Anthology). Four years and four 'different' product configurations all labelled as Score. I don't mind change, but it shouldn't take 4 years to come up with a formula, especially for a low-end offering... Has nothing to do with the ROI (which was actually really good for non-13-14 Score, in my experience).

I also had issues with the customer service group, when I was able to even talk to them (and not with Score issues)...

If they are out, I'm not going to feel bad for them. Some businesses succeed but many others don't. The NHL (and NHLPA) is wildly successful as evidenced by their projected 10% growth in revenue in the season following the lockout. The licensing is their decision to make. I have to believe that they have their reasons and, honestly, even if they were simply financial, the license is probably much more important to UD than it is to Panini (i.e. they would fold or be forced to sell out without it). As a collector, I'm going to go down the only road I really can and will deal with the landscape the manufacturers (both licensed and un-licensed) present...

We can certainly look at it as a negative, but why? It simply is what it is. I vote to start making lemonade and move forward.

The value isn't there for Panini because the demand isn't there. Why the demand isn't there? No idea, they make way nicer cards than UD.

I think the simple answer is no Gretzky and no Orr, ever. Put Orr and Gretzky (autos) in every product (even stickers) and more collectors find them relevant and exciting. The drop-off from a Gretzky/Orr to a Howe/Lemieux/Yzerman (which are in a lot of UD products, too) is huge.

I wonder and agree with you. I have bought far more Panini cards since 10-11 than UD.

The real question is did you buy more on the secondary market or boxes upon release? Personally, I've found that collectors who prefer Panini on the secondary market prefer it because it's the 'same' only cheaper. It's not a perfect example, but 13-14 John Tavares Prizm auto books $30 while a 13-14 John Tavares Black Diamond Gemography books $60. If you only want 1 Tavares sticker auto from this year for your PC, which do you go for? I would almost bet that most collectors (not going for the Gemography set) could convince themselves that the Prizm is 'obviously' the nicer card for the 'cost'.

[Wickabee]

I think the simple answer is no Gretzky and no Orr, ever. Put Orr and Gretzky (autos) in every product (even stickers) and more collectors find them relevant and exciting. The drop-off from a Gretzky/Orr to a Howe/Lemieux/Yzerman (which are in a lot of UD products, too) is huge.

I'm talking about the secondary market, not the primary. I don't think the Kessel collector is worried about whether the cards in his collection may have been boxed up with a Gretzky or Orr at some point, so that doesn't really account for Panini's low secondary value when they have far nicer looking cards without secondary cost coming into the equation. Flat out, Panini's cards are, for the most part, much, much nicer looking than UD.

If I had to guess I would say habit, and I'd probably be right, but it still doesn't really make sense.

[notoriousrob101]

Anyway you want to slice it, the cost of boxes need to be chopped by 30%.

[Wickabee]

Anyway you want to slice it, the cost of boxes need to be chopped by 30%.

This trumps upping ROI.

[MatsSundin13Rocks]

Chop the prices of boxes and the companies will cut the value of what the put into the boxes. Panini makes better cards than Upper Deck but does not have the most important thing on their side. That is history and customer loyalty. Upper Deck has that locked up. Hard for Panini to compete with UD Series 1 or 2 and the Young Guns rookies that sell for more than auto or mem or numbered Panini rookies. Set collectors collect Upper Deck products and have every year of the release of a certain product. Why is SPGU so popular? Because it has a history. Panini also has forced Upper Deck to up their game. I feel it would be disastrous for the hobby and collectors if UD regained an exclusive license. Panini also has more money so I'm surprised they could not afford to buy an exclusive license with the NHL and NHLPA to produce hockey cards and deliver a knockout blow to UD. I'd love for Topps and ITG to get licenses along with Panini and UD which would really create a thriving market for collectors and competition among companies. Monopolies suck. Adam Smith knew that. We all know that.

[robu84]

Why do people speak of BV as it has nothing to do with the real life anymore, not in paninis case atleast. As a collector of the contenders 11-12 set i have seen that many times. Look at the NHL ink set for instance, some autos like selanne jets has a very low bv and sells for like $200 on ebay. There are many examples in that set. Ofcourse there are examples of the opposite too, one booklet i noticed books for $300 and sells on ebay for $50-60. I dont know what they (becket) base their values on but it doesnt have anything to do with the market.
Im a guy who loves to bust wax, and i can say i have busted alot more panini and itg the last years than ud because in my opinion because i like them more.
The big problem is that we get too many products, theres like one every month from both companies! it should be maxed by 3-4 per company / year, and not limit the companies. That way im sure the cards would hold better value too.

[thorni2]

I dont know what they (becket) base their values on but it doesnt have anything to do with the market.

Beckett value means that a card has been sold for near the price at least once.

[mortuus]

UD getting exlusive license is big disaster and nothing else...