What would you do?

[Frendo]

I actually agreed a deal and I put a very nice offer which the seller very gladly accepted because it was like $30 or $35 more than the seller wanted....but 2 days later a another member did offered him a straight on offer at almost 2x more than my offer....!

So the seller became very unsure because of that crazy offer which came like a lighting from a very clear sky from nowhere....

I said to the seller that he should take that offer because it was a so outrageously overpaid offer so that's impossilbe to deny, of course I was very upset because it was a amazing card and we 110% agreed but the another member like came from nowhere about 2 days after our agreement....but it would be stupid if he didn't take that almost 2x offer for a $175 card....

[Cunnuc]

Honour the original trade. I have not once sold something on the Bay and then sold it elsewhere. Not once. On SCF it hasn't happened either. I have come close to deals but it fell through, but not once has a deal been accepted and then backed out on (from my end! It happened to so someone else that made the sale to me. From someone with a lot of feedback too. I no longer deal with that user eventhough I had a very good huge purchase of 300+ jerseys and autos from them prior to this occurance)

[Fred Bear]

- Fred Bear
"If you're willing to tell a person to post a trade or it's been accepted and you're responsible for posting it, to accept a second, better offer in between posting and 'officially' accepting is a poor, pathetic behavior. Period. If that's 'acceptable' behavior, you should have a permanent 'MUST SEND FIRST' (or similar wording that wouldn't be appropriate) tag to warn other traders."

Rules are placed on this site to be followed ( yes I know MODs, I break a few here and there but I cant help it ). Are we to have special MSF ( or equivalent ) tag beside our names because we dont agree with your principles or practices? Principles or practices that arnt even mandatory to be followed on this site. Should you have a certain tag beside your name that says, "Above the rules", or something like that, because you feel no matter what people have to follow the same code you do?

People will always do things different from you ...... people will always do something you do not agree with. Does that mean they are wrong in doing so .... not at all ...... from the sounds of it, lucky this isnt SCFred Bear, or people would be banned simply for not agreeing with your views.

It really sounds like you have the "everyone is entitled to my opinion" mentality in your post.

I wouldn't ban someone for disagreeing with my views and I have no problem with disagreement. I just actually enjoy the hobby and hope others do too. The OP asked for opinions and mine is a strong one on the topic of integrity - especially online. I've had transactions canceled on eBay (by buyers and sellers) because 'better' deals come along and think it's a bs practice provided for only by the anonymity of the internet. I've had guys walk out on deals that were agreed to and posted, but then the other guy goes 'missing' when it's his turn to post only to turn up posting his 'better' deal with another trader... So, yes, I probably would ban someone for jerking people around in trades whether public or private (most sites actually do monitor the practice). To me, creating negative experiences for people in the hobby seems against the spirit of this site (and more generally, our hobby) even if it's not an explicit rule... I do not believe that agreeing to a trade in PM opens an undetermined window of time in which to field 'real' final offers. Sorry, jerking people around and wasting their time isn't why I come to trading forums. [I mean, would you seriously agree to a deal with a dealer at a card show and tell him to hold on, you want to make one more lap to see if a better deal is out there? I'm sure you can justify why the situations are different and that's fine. I agree that online is 'different' and that's why honesty and integrity seem pretty important to me.]

I tend to believe that the integrity of a trading forum is made up by that forum's membership. The less integrity among that group of individuals and... you can draw your own conclusions. Yes, 'technically' you may follow the letter of the law, but, again, if you're willing to renege on a trade, I'd prefer there be a way to warn people such as myself that I might just be wasting time 'trading' with you.

Truth be told, I find it interesting that people really don't acknowledge that for probably 99.99% of deals made, THERE IS ALWAYS A BETTER DEAL OUT THERE. That's why flippers buy stuff. That's why shops buy stuff. And the list goes on... Every trade you do follow through on is not the 'best deal' and, while you might not care if you 'make someone mad online', others do. Integrity and reputation isn't what you think of yourself.

I'm not going to argue with you, though. You, and any other, are free to disagree. It's just disappointing...

[LecavalierFan]

If you and the other person agree to the deal, ie, One said "here's this deal" and the other person said "That looks good, let's do it," that deal is not tentative, it's done. Saying that just because its not in the trade manager yet is a ridiculous argument. I don't know about you guys, but I have a life outside of this site, and outside of this hobby. I may not be able to post something up on the Trade Manager at the drop of a hat. If one person backs out because a better offer comes along in the few moments after a deal was already struck, then not only are you going to be blacklisted by me, I will make sure everyone else knows what kind of person you are.

You can make any argument you want to make you feel better about it, but in the end, a lack of integrity and a lack of character are going to force you out.


Now, that being said, if deals are still in the negotiation phase, and no deal has been accepted by both parties and a move to post it up has been announced, or accepted by both parties, then by all means, listen to other offers. That's good business; backing out of a deal accepted by both parties is not.

As to the OP aobut eBayers backing out of deals, well, there's not much you can do about that since you'll never really know if they were lying or not. Leave feedback stating as such and move on.

[MattDMC]

After one instance I always try to honor the original trade/offer.

One time last year I pulled an auto of I forget who ($15 card) and got two PM's on it (It wasn't for sale it was in the Box Break section). The first PM asked how much and I replied with $15 and while I was waiting for a reply another member asked how much and again I said $15 not even thinking that I gave another member a quote on it first. The second member PM'ed back first saying he'd take it so I posted it up, about an hour later the first guy PM'ed and said he'd take it as well and I had to break it to him that I already sold it to somebody else. He wasn't happy that I sold it out from under him after offering him a quote and I can understand that.

I felt guilty about selling the card above to the second person while waiting for the first person to reply so after that I now operate on a first come first serve basis, if somebody offers/contacts me on a card it is on hold until I hear from them one way or the other. If I have two members PM me on a card I will PM the person who asked first and try to make a deal and send the second person a PM saying the card is pending.

[theboxbreaker96]

[QUOTE=LecavalierFan;13515365]If you and the other person agree to the deal, ie, One said "here's this deal" and the other person said "That looks good, let's do it," that deal is not tentative, it's done. Saying that just because its not in the trade manager yet is a ridiculous argument. I don't know about you guys, but I have a life outside of this site, and outside of this hobby. I may not be able to post something up on the Trade Manager at the drop of a hat. If one person backs out because a better offer comes along in the few moments after a deal was already struck, then not only are you going to be blacklisted by me, I will make sure everyone else knows what kind of person you are.

You can make any argument you want to make you feel better about it, but in the end, a lack of integrity and a lack of character are going to force you out.
QUOTE]

I fully understand what your saying and I agree to a certain extent. However as a college student who has a tough time getting money for this hobby I have to get the best I can. I don't go on someone's word just because they say we have a deal doesn't mean a lot to me. People break their word everyday all the time. Its not like a handshake is possible on the internet. To me the handshake is when the trade is posted that's the handshake that's when I have to oblige to that deal no matter what else comes along. I have had a deal and then someone says I don't feel comfortable doing this deal so Ill pass. Its essentially the same thing. Im not going to cry over it Im not going to condemned that person. Nothing is official until its posted. I would give that person every chance to increase the offer but if they cant then I would hope that you understand that someone made a better offer. Its not like im posting that card to someone's thread trying to sell it for a higher price. If someone comes to me with a better offer im going to take it.

Im not wrong for taking the best deal. I don't see where there is a lack of integrity by taking the best deal. Im not a crook I have never ripped anyone off. I guess that's my opinion and im not arguing with anyone as I don't think anyone is wrong. I just don't see any problems with not taking the best deal as long as nothing is official. I hope this doesn't make anyone not want to trade or make a deal with me but its just my opinion.

[japhi]

Once I come to a verbal I would honour the deal. I sell for a living (not cards) and integrity is part of my personal brand, I will lose money on a deal before backing out. That said, I wouldn't hold a grudge against someone that got a better offer while we were at verbal and took another deal, to each their own and there is no card in the word that could get me too worked up.

[japhi]

After one instance I always try to honor the original trade/offer.

One time last year I pulled an auto of I forget who ($15 card) and got two PM's on it (It wasn't for sale it was in the Box Break section). The first PM asked how much and I replied with $15 and while I was waiting for a reply another member asked how much and again I said $15 not even thinking that I gave another member a quote on it first. The second member PM'ed back first saying he'd take it so I posted it up, about an hour later the first guy PM'ed and said he'd take it as well and I had to break it to him that I already sold it to somebody else. He wasn't happy that I sold it out from under him after offering him a quote and I can understand that.

I felt guilty about selling the card above to the second person while waiting for the first person to reply so after that I now operate on a first come first serve basis, if somebody offers/contacts me on a card it is on hold until I hear from them one way or the other. If I have two members PM me on a card I will PM the person who asked first and try to make a deal and send the second person a PM saying the card is pending.

You didn't do anything wrong there, two guys asked, you gave them the same price and one pulled the trigger faster.

[30ranfordfan]

About 6 months months, I did it on eBay, by pure accident. I relisted a bunch of auctions that ended (without sales) and a few of the lower end one (I'm talking stuff like UD inserts, Canvas, and common Game Jerseys) - things that I would have been listing for 99 cents - had been put into a shipment to COMC. When time came to packaged things up, I went through several boxes of cards multiple times looking for them (this happened with, I believe, 4 cards I sold) and couldn't find them. Eventually I had to give up looking (they did go to COMC) and message the buyers:

- One guy had bought a pair of UD Game Jerseys from me. With bidding they had reach $3ish (each). I refunded the purchase price of one, and gave him free shipping on the other. Apologized for the mistake, and immediately was told that it was no problem, thanks for the refund, thanks for the free ship, it happens.

- Someone else had just bought a bunch of inserts off me. I think 4 or 5 in total. I did the same thing. Sent the one (or two??) that I still had, refunded the rest, and refunded the shipping costs. Would have actually lost money on this deal: $1.80 for postage, and at best I sold two cards for $1.98.... may have just been one for 99 cents.


I just wanted to point out that sometimes mistakes do happen, and it's not seller's remorse.




As for the general topic: Honor the first deal. If I break a box, and come back the next day and two people have sent me offers on a card.... the order they sent the messages wouldn't matter much to me, 95% of the time I'd take the better one, but I'm not usually an "offer" kind of guy anyway (though making an offer off a box break thread, and not a sale thread, might happen).

It's really simple: "I want $40 for this card, delivered". If someone messages me and offers $30, I'm most likely going to thank them for their time and move on. If they offer me $40, I'm going to accept it.... and is a done deal as far as I'm concerned. I have had times when I've traded or sold cards, and someone asks me "Is this still available??" and even if we haven't confirmed the deal - my answer has always been "no, sorry. It's gone"

I have never had anyone, ever, message me and offer me more than my asking price. Why would they? I guess that kind of keeps me from having to make that tough judgment call that the OP asks about?


I say you have to go with honoring a deal, if you've agreed to it. Not because I think something forces you to do that (i.e. site rules) but because you would want someone else to do the same thing. If you were selling a card for $20, and then suddenly someone is willing to pay you $30.... while you were waiting for the trade to be confirmed..... sure, you're getting an extra $10..... but what happens if it's the other way around? How would you feel, after agreeing to the deal, if the other member backed out of an unconfirmed trade because someone else offered him one for $10 ???

[kylemclaren7]

I just voted ..... and saw the results ..... and I think people are lying =) .... just my opinion

+1, ppl say the correct answer, not what they are actually thinking

Wow, man, take a chill pill! When you stated "Some ppl just need as much money as possible to survive" you were absolutely putting the question in terms of survival, to an extent that was probably waaaaay beyond what the OP had in mind when he presented this question. Your aggressive defensiveness indicates to me that you know your view is going to be in the extreme minority on this one but for some reason you don't care. Just realize that if you renege on a deal with someone, whether or not it has been posted, that person will probably NEVER deal with you again.

I, too, grew up in various degrees of poverty (at one time during my childhood our family of five and one dog was living in our well-worn Volvo station wagon) and I also value money highly. However, there are many, many things more important than money; in this example, we are talking about integrity and it will be a sad day indeed when I sacrifice my integrity for a few extra dollars.

Integrity is important, hence why I have never backed out of a deal for more money, nor have I ever sold the same card both here and on ebay and made up some bs line. If I had a million bucks I would give everyone great deals; but until my mom is taken care of for the rest of her life by me, I'm going to be fighting for more money. Furthermore, I don't I'm in the extreme minority of ppl who feel this way, I feel I'm in the extreme minority of ppl who will admit they feel this way. A large part of integrity is being honest, and I'm honestly able to share my feelings. I'm not hiding behind the politically correct statement. I like money and if you offer me more money than the next guy, you get my card.


[QUOTE=theboxbreaker96;13515498]

If you and the other person agree to the deal, ie, One said "here's this deal" and the other person said "That looks good, let's do it," that deal is not tentative, it's done. Saying that just because its not in the trade manager yet is a ridiculous argument. I don't know about you guys, but I have a life outside of this site, and outside of this hobby. I may not be able to post something up on the Trade Manager at the drop of a hat. If one person backs out because a better offer comes along in the few moments after a deal was already struck, then not only are you going to be blacklisted by me, I will make sure everyone else knows what kind of person you are.

You can make any argument you want to make you feel better about it, but in the end, a lack of integrity and a lack of character are going to force you out.
QUOTE]

I fully understand what your saying and I agree to a certain extent. However as a college student who has a tough time getting money for this hobby I have to get the best I can. I don't go on someone's word just because they say we have a deal doesn't mean a lot to me. People break their word everyday all the time. Its not like a handshake is possible on the internet. To me the handshake is when the trade is posted that's the handshake that's when I have to oblige to that deal no matter what else comes along. I have had a deal and then someone says I don't feel comfortable doing this deal so Ill pass. Its essentially the same thing. Im not going to cry over it Im not going to condemned that person. Nothing is official until its posted. I would give that person every chance to increase the offer but if they cant then I would hope that you understand that someone made a better offer. Its not like im posting that card to someone's thread trying to sell it for a higher price. If someone comes to me with a better offer im going to take it.

Im not wrong for taking the best deal. I don't see where there is a lack of integrity by taking the best deal. Im not a crook I have never ripped anyone off. I guess that's my opinion and im not arguing with anyone as I don't think anyone is wrong. I just don't see any problems with not taking the best deal as long as nothing is official. I hope this doesn't make anyone not want to trade or make a deal with me but its just my opinion.

THIS. I would absolutely give the first guy a chance to match, but if he can't and the deal hasn't been posted or the card hasn't been sold on ebay, It's just good business. People all over break their word and if you don't cover your bases it'll happen to you. EXAMPLE: up until the moment a trade has been confirmed by the other person in the trade manager, I keep the card listed on eBay if I have listed it there. No I don't go and shop the card to someone else, no I don't keep it in my sales threads, but just in case the buyer backs out, I know I don't gotta pay another listing fee on the card. That has happened to me before, and it's not like the guy who backs out loses a down payment, or even sends me 30 cents to cover the listing fee. Why should I take that hit?




I'll repeat one more time. I HAVE NEVER BACKED OUT OF A DEAL THATS BEEN POSTED NOR HAVE I SOLD THE SAME CARD TWICE. I once tried to back out of a deal here simply because I had to make car repairs and could not justify spending the $ on cards (see where my priorities are Fred Bear). It had been confirmed in the Trade Manager and everything, and I kindly explained and asked the seller to cancel it. He didn't, but his explanation was completely legit, and to his credit, Tennelson55 gave me a bit of time to pay and held the cards for me. Do I wish I had the $ instead of the cards, of course, but a deal is a deal, and he wasn't comfortable cancelling it, so I came through. That's full disclosure.