Florida Governor Delays Debate Over A Fan

[37jetson]

First part.... yes McKinley, as well as Warren G Harding, Herbert Hoover, and others were "bought" presidents buy the business community. Back then this was called corruption and Teddy Roosevelt ended it first with the anti trust bust movement, and FDR cleaned up the repeat of the 1920's with the New Deal. Today that is called the republican party platform.. that's the difference.

Second part... so because warren buffet (who champions higher taxes on himself and all top 1% billionaires) pays lower taxes than even you do probably.. that makes it ok on some level? Please clarify. GE paid exactly ZERO dollars in tax back in 2012, and burger king just left the united states to avoid paying taxes... republicans cheered for both of these events (CNBC anchors called people unpatriotic for not supporting it lol)... these are the loopholes I was referring to.

Teddy Roosevelt did implement much needed antitrust reforms, but it was not cleaned up by any stretch of the imagination. Obama and Clinton are just as much in the pockets of big business as the Republicans. It may be some (but not all) of the same companies. Did you ever think for a second who financially benefitted from Obamacare? Do you think these companies/industries were not in bed with one or both of the political parties? Politics is always about the money no matter what they say.

General Electric bought off more than the Republicans when they paid zero taxes in 2012. I do not like what Burger King and other companies are doing to avoid paying taxes. One of my former employers is very profitable and they moved their headquarters a few years back to Ireland to massive reduce their tax bill. This sucks and should not be supported. How much people and companies should be taxed is a dffierent argument, but companies should pay their defined share of taxes. This is where my Libertarian/Conservatism differs greatly from the Republicans.

[duane1969]

So your refute is to say what I said (slow recovery) and that obamacare is "debatable"..... sounds like you are saying I'm right lol. Good to see not all right wingers want to deny reality

I agree that Obamacare looks to be on the road to success. If you actually read what I wrote without bias then you also saw the reality that the appearance is superficial. No health care program can be deemed a success in a year. Can you agree that calling it a success one year after it's rollout is short-sighted and that calling such a monumental health care program a "success" before it is even fully implemented is asinine?

And you said the economy has recovered. I repeat. Let me be blunt...you are wrong. The actual experts (you know, those guys who do it for a living) say the economy is in recovery, but will take several more years of the current slow growth to truly be labeled "recovered". So while you might want to think I agreed with you, I actually refuted your claim without being biased or using biased information as you requested.

EDIT: And I forgot to add. You whole point about Obamacare and the economy was to try and lend credence to your claim that Obama has been a success. Let me be clear. The man has been in office for 6 years. If his "claim to fame" is a healthcare program that may or may not be ultimately successful and an economy recovery that needs his entire presidency plus another 2 or 3 years to recover...well, that is a pretty pathetic argument for success (Note: if it takes that long it will be the longest, slowest economy recovery in history). Even Jimmy Carter was more successful than that.

[Imac7065]

Teddy Roosevelt did implement much needed antitrust reforms, but it was not cleaned up by any stretch of the imagination. Obama and Clinton are just as much in the pockets of big business as the Republicans. It may be some (but not all) of the same companies. Did you ever think for a second who financially benefitted from Obamacare? Do you think these companies/industries were not in bed with one or both of the political parties? Politics is always about the money no matter what they say.

General Electric bought off more than the Republicans when they paid zero taxes in 2012. I do not like what Burger King and other companies are doing to avoid paying taxes. One of my former employers is very profitable and they moved their headquarters a few years back to Ireland to massive reduce their tax bill. This sucks and should not be supported. How much people and companies should be taxed is a dffierent argument, but companies should pay their defined share of taxes. This is where my Libertarian/Conservatism differs greatly from the Republicans.

I think you and I just had our first ever.... agreement

[Imac7065]

I agree that Obamacare looks to be on the road to success. If you actually read what I wrote without bias then you also saw the reality that the appearance is superficial. No health care program can be deemed a success in a year. Can you agree that calling it a success one year after it's rollout is short-sighted and that calling such a monumental health care program a "success" before it is even fully implemented is asinine?

And you said the economy has recovered. I repeat. Let me be blunt...you are wrong. The actual experts (you know, those guys who do it for a living) say the economy is in recovery, but will take several more years of the current slow growth to truly be labeled "recovered". So while you might want to think I agreed with you, I actually refuted your claim without being biased or using biased information as you requested.

EDIT: And I forgot to add. You whole point about Obamacare and the economy was to try and lend credence to your claim that Obama has been a success. Let me be clear. The man has been in office for 6 years. If his "claim to fame" is a healthcare program that may or may not be ultimately successful and an economy recovery that needs his entire presidency plus another 2 or 3 years to recover...well, that is a pretty pathetic argument for success (Note: if it takes that long it will be the longest, slowest economy recovery in history). Even Jimmy Carter was more successful than that.

Nothing in government is successful within a year.. but on the flip side if it doesn't work on day 1, its also called a failure (IE the website last year). However, all indicators are that the exchanges, changes to coverage laws, and expansion of medicad are all working. I personally hope this leads to us to a real national health care system, and ends the US being the only 1st world country without one.

[beachbum]

General Electric bought off more than the Republicans when they paid zero taxes in 2012. I do not like what Burger King and other companies are doing to avoid paying taxes. One of my former employers is very profitable and they moved their headquarters a few years back to Ireland to massive reduce their tax bill. This sucks and should not be supported. How much people and companies should be taxed is a dffierent argument, but companies should pay their defined share of taxes. This is where my Libertarian/Conservatism differs greatly from the Republicans.

I think it sucks too, but why did Burger King do what it did? Look for root causes instead of blaming companies that move operations overseas. We live in a free market society and everybody loves it when things are going good, when the market fluctuates or if we have a recession everyone wants to bail on it and beg the government to do something. If the business climate in this country is counter productive for some businesses and they choose to leave, maybe the government should see why. Maybe there is something wrong with the business tax culture? If the US government wants businesses to stay here, make it inviting and give them incentives to do so. Live by the sword, die by the sword!

BTW, I've give my own counterpoint....I don't think the government should have in the past or do so in the future bail out car companies, banks, and the like. They should be subject to market conditions just like anyone else, they need to find their own ways to be lean, productive, profitable, etc.

[Imac7065]

I think it sucks too, but why did Burger King do what it did? Look for root causes instead of blaming companies that move operations overseas. We live in a free market society and everybody loves it when things are going good, when the market fluctuates or if we have a recession everyone wants to bail on it and beg the government to do something. If the business climate in this country is counter productive for some businesses and they choose to leave, maybe the government should see why. Maybe there is something wrong with the business tax culture? If the US government wants businesses to stay here, make it inviting and give them incentives to do so. Live by the sword, die by the sword!

BTW, I've give my own counterpoint....I don't think the government should have in the past or do so in the future bail out car companies, banks, and the like. They should be subject to market conditions just like anyone else, they need to find their own ways to be lean, productive, profitable, etc.

Burger King did what it did because they knew they could. There used to be regulations that prevented american based companies from "parking" themselves in other countries to avoid taxes... under George W Bush (and some under Clinton) these laws were revoked. This is also why your tech support doesn't speak english, everything is made in china or taiwan, and more and more jobs are shipped overseas. As Bush explained "this is a good thing, what's good for business is good for america" (paraphrased quote on outsourcing)

[Imac7065]

Just wanted to bring this debate back to the original topic.... it came out in yesterday's CNN debate that Rick Scott delayed the execution of a murderer because the secretary of state wanted to hold a fund raiser on the same day as the execution... that's absolutely disgusting and I would like opinions on this.