For a fee, I'm happy to be your back-door man...

[JTPens58]

Just getting caught up on this thread and info...fun late night read. I've pretty much shut down my collecting to finishing off the 04-05 franchises chase at this point, and as someone who has spent a lot of money on ITG boxes, cases, and singles, this is rather disheartening...but having said that, it doesn't make me enjoy the ITG cards/sets I have any less. An amazing memorabilia piece doesn't change if the print run does; and when you're talking the vintage guys, a Vezina game used skate piece, whether it is out of said to be out of 2 or 5 or 25 but now may actually be double that, is still a piece of history in your hand.

I'm not saying I'm okay with what has transpired; I am most certainly not. I'm just saying...for anyone looking to dump their ITG cards and have a few from 04-05 franchises, hit me up. :-)

[Rraincock]

Does anyone have any information on that Topps lawsuit? It would make an interesting read...

[webottew]

I don't post on this forum often, but here is the latest summary of findings from the other Board. I'm the guy with the 6 Baileys.

Facts:
The following unreleased cards have been available for sale by eBayer (ID). These cards were never on the original checklist.

• 2001-02 BAP Signature Series Autographs #LCJ Curtis Joseph (dacardworld)
• 2001-02 BAP Signature Series Autographs Patrick Roy #XLPR (dacardworld, steelcitycollectibles1)
• 2006-07 International Ice Quad Patch Ryan Miller Montoya Richter Vanbiesbrouck /6 (steelcitycollectibles2)
• 2012-13 ITG Motown Madness #AMV Mike Vernon Auto (dacardworld)

The following cards are overruns (more copies than stated print/insert number)

• 2012-13 H&P Gold Patch M03 Justin Bailey /5 (6 copies owned by webottew )
• 1980s Decades Silver Emblem Vaive /3. (4 copies exist. 2 copies owned by webottew and 2 copies owned by gallinator).

Gregg from Leaf confirmed Dr. Price no longer has any equity in ITG or is involved in an day to day operations. The company is completely 100% owned by Brian Gray and Leaf Trading Cards.

Circumstantial Evidence

A lot of eBayers have a LOT of low numbered ITG cards/sets, but I try to limit the Circumstantial Evidence to those sellers "beating the odds" with the cards in their inventory.

• eBayers dacardworld and steelcitycollectibles2 have copies of the same 2012-13 H&P Gold Patches /5 (Wotherspoon, Cooke)
  
• The #5 and 6 Bailey Gold patches were purchased from dacardworld and steelcitycollectibles2
  
• A HI Member recognizes a card they sent back to ITG because it was damaged and it is currently for sale by dacardworld
  
• A HI Member went to the National and looked through a box of ITG hockey cards at the DA Card World booth. They saw many cards the collector classified as "damaged"
  
• 1980s Decades Silver Emblem Vaive #4 was purchased from dacardworld.
  
• eBayer SteelCityCollectibles1 selling 4 complete Motown Madness GOLD Base Sets (/10)
  
• eBayer SteelCityCollectibles1 selling 12 complete Decades - The 90s GOLD Base Sets (/30)
  
• eBayer SteelCityCollectibles1 selling 3 complete 2011 Ringside Boxing Round 2 Turkey Red GOLD Insert Sets (/9)
  
• ebayer SteelCityCollectibles having at least 10 sets of Broad Street Boys Gold (/50)
  
• TurcoCollector3 has 9 copies of a Chet Pickard Autothreads /9 and claims he knows a collector that has a 10th copy. TurcoCollector3 purchased his 9th copy from Steel City
  
• TurcoCollector3 has 6 copies of a Chet Pickard Jumbo Emblem Black /6 and claims he knows a collector that has a 7th copy. TurcoCollector3 purchased his 6th copy from Dacardworld
  ** I include TurcoCollector3 as circumstantial because the other collector is not specified
  
• RGM81 found a copy of 2006-07 BTP Carey Price autograph with a "modern" auto sticker (inscribed with number 31)
  ** I include this as circumstantial since RGM81 does not have this conflicting autograph in possession.

[webottew]

Does anyone have any information on that Topps lawsuit? It would make an interesting read...

A summary of the story is here.

If there are any lawyers on board, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts re: my 6 Baileys .....

[moosefan87]

As someone who has a pipeline to information regarding corporate fraud the info given to me is this. As the print run states "inserted" as opposed to the actual serial numbering there is no real case here. The company if still in business could release a statement claiming a promotional item was released and not stamped properly, etc, etc. Then if compensation was awarded they would base it upon many factors so in this case and not to offend what is the overall cost to one extra print run of Justin Bailey and Rick Vaive? The only people that actually win are the lawyers.

Again this is info provided to me by someone to whom I sent links to both threads and has 20 years in a law firm dealing with corporate fraud.

[webottew]

As someone who has a pipeline to information regarding corporate fraud the info given to me is this. As the print run states "inserted" as opposed to the actual serial numbering there is no real case here. The company if still in business could release a statement claiming a promotional item was released and not stamped properly, etc, etc. Then if compensation was awarded they would base it upon many factors so in this case and not to offend what is the overall cost to one extra print run of Justin Bailey and Rick Vaive? The only people that actually win are the lawyers.

Again this is info provided to me by someone to whom I sent links to both threads and has 20 years in a law firm dealing with corporate fraud.

Thanks Moose for the info and passing the links on to others. That "inserted" statement on the checklist is a real catch.

I'm no lawyer but wondering if these factors have any play. If your source is still interested, feel free to pass along.
1) Wouldn't they have to prove the extra cards were not inserted, and were available at a specific show per their claim? Something more than "Ooopsies. That one must've slipped out without a stamp"
2) What *IF* the company still exists as the original corporation but is under new ownership? If a company does wrong, does it matter who the current owner is?
3) What difference is there for accountability between an LLC and INC.
4) The Topps Finest Jagr case was similar. No serial numbering on the cards with an overrun and Topps was found liable, with punitive damages assigned beyond the actual damages. I don't have access to the court transcripts, but the claimant (Englert) was from St. Paul/Lake Saint Louis, MO. The case was settled by jury in the St. Charles County Circuit Court, 2003 if that helps.