The Legacy Of LeBron

[jmintz]

ANd AGAIN other than the 1st Cavs run Lebron had Bosh, Wade Ray allen come on now please get serious.

And last year, when he had a pile of garbage and took 2 games off the Warriors. With that talent they should have gotten swept.

Anyhow, your last comment proves my point precisely. You have to have other hall of famers to win a title. End of story. Not one of the other people you've mentioned has won a title on their own. Every single one of them had another of the NBA's Top 50 players EVER to do it.

No one here is taking anything away from Magic Johnson, or Larry Bird, or any of the other guys you're mentioning (while having facts twisted, I might add). You've sat here and dismissed LeBron James as a product of the media, which is patently absurd.

And I was born in 1977, and have seen most of these 80s guys play in person. Curious how old the rest of y'all are.

[ajcorleone]

I'm 43 born in 73 and I remember Magic and Bird in college. I also am a firm believer that "a carry" stopped being called once Jordan started mking highlight dunks and 4 steps to the basket. SO when I see "The King" get appointed and take years to get his first title I AM NOT IMPRESSED. 3 titles a great job just dont make him top 5 top 10 my opinion AGAIN. If you have played basketball and you watch basketball you cannot deny they let too much go when MJ blew up.

And last year, when he had a pile of garbage and took 2 games off the Warriors. With that talent they should have gotten swept.

Anyhow, your last comment proves my point precisely. You have to have other hall of famers to win a title. End of story. Not one of the other people you've mentioned has won a title on their own. Every single one of them had another of the NBA's Top 50 players EVER to do it.

No one here is taking anything away from Magic Johnson, or Larry Bird, or any of the other guys you're mentioning (while having facts twisted, I might add). You've sat here and dismissed LeBron James as a product of the media, which is patently absurd.

And I was born in 1977, and have seen most of these 80s guys play in person. Curious how old the rest of y'all are.

[jmintz]

I'm 43 born in 73 and I remember Magic and Bird in college. I also am a firm believer that "a carry" stopped being called once Jordan started mking highlight dunks and 4 steps to the basket. SO when I see "The King" get appointed and take years to get his first title I AM NOT IMPRESSED. 3 titles a great job just dont make him top 5 top 10 my opinion AGAIN. If you have played basketball and you watch basketball you cannot deny they let too much go when MJ blew up.

I can't argue how the hand check rule has changed basketball. Curry couldn't do what he does today if he played in the 80s.

But, I'm not sure how you can use three titles as a benchmark for top 5 or top 10 when Bird only has three also. Why are Bird's three (with superior talent) held to a different standard than LeBron's three? As you did indeed watch basketball in the 80s then you can't possibly say LeBron's teammates are better than, or even equal to, Bird's were.

And Wilt only won two rings. Where does that then rank him?

[pwaldo]

But, I'm not sure how you can use three titles as a benchmark for top 5 or top 10 when Bird only has three also. Why are Bird's three (with superior talent) held to a different standard than LeBron's three? As you did indeed watch basketball in the 80s then you can't possibly say LeBron's teammates are better than, or even equal to, Bird's were.

I think people rank Bird too high since he was around for far too short of a time....yet he still has as many titles as Lebron who people claim dominated the league yet Bird had a short peak and was basically knocked out of the playoffs by the Lakers, Dr J, or the Pistons later when they really weren't a factor anymore. That's one of the reasons why I don't get why people say Lebron is some dominant force since it isn't like his isn't doing something that hasn't been done before in terms of winning, scoring, etc.

I also think people that go too far back get into trouble because the game isn't the same. I mean they didn't have the 3 point shot. Dunking was illegal etc. So I really can't honestly argue guys back in the black and white TV era could be better than guys today but I'm still struggling to see how Lebron could be the #1 of the past 30 years. I mean if Ray Allen (a HOFer since people were listing that) doesn't make a shot and the Warriors (a completely overrated team which I called) didn't collapse in a historic collapse Lebron would be looking at just one ring with a whole bunch of losses. I know he can carry a team and I know he is an all time great but I'm still not ready to drink the Lebron James flavored kool aid considering people 10 years ago were on here saying the same thing but about Kobe who now seems to be yesterday's special.

[Rdaveigajr]

I think you have to look at individual accolades as well as championships when talking all-time greats. For example my I consider Karl Malone as the second best PF of all-time, behind Tim Duncan. Malone is statistically better in everything than Duncan, but Duncan's 5 Championships gives him the edge. My third would be Nowitzki, Malone also is statistically better but Dirk does have a Championship that Malone doesn't, but that's not enough to move him ahead of Malone. Also we can't use a what-if scenario. Like what-if Ray Allen missed that three. What if John Paxton missed his in 93. What if Kerr missed his 15 footer in 97.

[Rdaveigajr]

Also don't see how people can still put Kobe ahead of LeBron, when Lebron averages higher career PPG, RPG, APG, SPG and BPG in both the regular season and playoffs. Kobe 1 League MVP, Lebron 4. Kobe 2 Finals, MVP LeBron 3. Kobe Finals Record 5-2(one that should have an asterisks for 2002), LeBron 3-4.

[ajcorleone]

I am sure we have all seen this and even though I hate the Celtics have to give Larry his due

[ajcorleone]

Asterisks??? Wouldn't that mean Bron Bron would have 2 of his 3 with an asterisks? This is a very opinionated debate but the bottom line is at 3-4 Lebron is probably done winning championships as he has slowed down and we all have seen what happens when the body starts breaking down. And what no Big Shot Robert Horry in this conversation LOL he has a few rings!!!

Also don't see how people can still put Kobe ahead of LeBron, when Lebron averages higher career PPG, RPG, APG, SPG and BPG in both the regular season and playoffs. Kobe 1 League MVP, Lebron 4. Kobe 2 Finals, MVP LeBron 3. Kobe Finals Record 5-2(one that should have an asterisks for 2002), LeBron 3-4.

[Rdaveigajr]

Lets be honest the Kings should have been in the finals in 2002, Game 6 Kings up 3-2. Lakers shoot 21 for 27 from the free throw line in the 4th quarter alone thats a pace of (108 FT a game). Kings were still only down 1 with 13 seconds left when Kobe elbows bibby in the nose and Bibby is called for foul. Game is no doubt the worst offiated game an nba history. One of the officials stated that Los Angelas in the Finals was better for the league than Sacramento.

[pwaldo]

Also we can't use a what-if scenario. Like what-if Ray Allen missed that three. What if John Paxton missed his in 93. What if Kerr missed his 15 footer in 97.

The what if was in reference to the so called most dominating player of all time that needed a HOF player to hit the 3 to get a win. His other dominating win was the overrated Warriors collapsing in one of the greatest team choke jobs in a championship ever. I'm pretty sure if you took those 2 championships away from Jordan he'd still have 4 which would be one more than the King and that's after Jordan mysteriously just quit basketball to play baseball for a season or two.

And no I don't really see champions as some end all debate about who is greater but seeing as how the guy who this thread is about had some hour long special on ESPN where he bragged how many titles he was going to win I thought it would be fair play.