Empty Seats, Empty Seats Everywhere

[RGM81]

It's easy to poke fun at Carolina having attendance drop to under 7,000 for their second game of the year, but they're far from the only city that's seeing a drop in butts in seats this young season.

The Habs did not sell out the Bell Centre for their opening night. Let that sink in for a minute. Yes they still had 21,302 in there. But for many years that building has been to capacity.

Last night I watched bits and pieces of the Canucks/Jets game...LOTS of cushions in the lower bowl. Attendance officially listed at 15,589 - capacity is over 18,000.

Is it the on-ice product? Ticket prices? Both?

I say a bit of both...the Canucks were bad last year, and are predicted to be bad this year. Yet they still increased prices by as much as 25% in some sections. They priced me out of this year's Habs game...for now. LOL I'm not paying $300 for a lower bowl ticket when the same seat last year was $240. Let's get serious here.

It's a problem where I think that many fans are being squeezed out...it's been an ongoing issue for many years as demand has always seemed inelastic and teams could charge whatever they wanted. But now, it appears that some measure of accountability is coming into place. It's just too darn much money for a night out to watch a team that isn't all that good.

Discuss.

[Thick McRunfast]

I agree that it's probably a combination of the on-ice product and ticket prices.

I would also add food and beverage prices to that list. And depending on the arena, the seating arrangement, sight lines, and overall feel of the building. Is it a real "hockey barn", or does it feel more cold and antiseptic?

Another factor, for me at least, is all the non-hockey stuff that goes on at a hockey game these days. So many distractions! At every TV timeout there's a scoreboard video in your face, or people skating around flinging t-shirts at the crowd, or music blasting, or a promotional event. Why do the developers think we need to be entertained every second we're there? The game is the entertainment. That's why most of us go to hockey games -- to watch a hockey game. When there's a break in the action, how about giving us a break? Just let us relax for a minute and chat with our friends.

Anyway, call me a grumpy old man for that last paragraph, but I don't go to as many games as I once did for those reasons, and I think some other fans might agree.

[30ranfordfan]

I agree that it's probably a combination of the on-ice product and ticket prices.

I would also add food and beverage prices to that list. And depending on the arena, the seating arrangement, sight lines, and overall feel of the building. Is it a real "hockey barn", or does it feel more cold and antiseptic?

Another factor, for me at least, is all the non-hockey stuff that goes on at a hockey game these days. So many distractions! At every TV timeout there's a scoreboard video in your face, or people skating around flinging t-shirts at the crowd, or music blasting, or a promotional event. Why do the developers think we need to be entertained every second we're there? The game is the entertainment. That's why most of us go to hockey games -- to watch a hockey game. When there's a break in the action, how about giving us a break? Just let us relax for a minute and chat with our friends.

Anyway, call me a grumpy old man for that last paragraph, but I think some other fans might agree.

I guess we're both grumpy old men.

Basketball - I can't stand the in game product. It's awful. The music thumping, the lights going, the dancing, the announcer being part of the show on every basket (at least this is how things were in Toronto 8-10 years ago). I told myself that one day I would accept free tickets again (I have turned down multiple offers for FREE good Raptors seats in the last few years) - but I have just not been able to do it. I don't like the game THAT much to begin with, and I find watching it live to be a mess.

Baseball - I love the game, I wish they'd end three quarters of the dog & pony shows that go on. I have long thought that baseball's biggest problem in attracting "new" fans (i.e. why aren't teenagers & early-20-somethings as interested in baseball as past generations?) is that when young fans attend games as kids - they have a whole bunch of non-baseball distractions thrown at them. Instead of watching the game, they're watching a bunch of things that a 12 year old isn't going to be interested in. One the mascots are no longer cool, you don't care who wins the Hotdog vs Mustard race, etc, etc - If that's all you ever focused on while you were at the park, you're not going to be much interested in what's left.

Hockey - I've never thought they were as bad for it as the the other sports, but it's getting worse and worse. Not that I mind looking at the "Ice Girls" - but it's needless. I don't want the people cleaning the ice between whistles to be a distraction. They should be a lot like a good #6 dman - I don't notice you. Want to put on a show with mascots during the intermission? Sure. The rest of the time, please stay far away from my section.

That all being said - I don't believe "distractions" has anything to do with declining attendance in markets like Montreal or Vancouver. It's high prices, and low expectations for the team. It's a real slippery slope too. If you can't sell out in one season - unless something happens to dramatically increase interest... mini-pack sales will suffer big time the following year. Why? Suppose you and 3 friends want to go splits on a pair of tickets, for 6 games. You go to 3 games each. Guess what? If there's no sell outs, then you don't need to buy those ahead of time, so you can just go when it seems like a good idea to do it..... but then if the team is bad (like you expect) that "good time" doesn't happen quite as often as you though.

If you're hiking prices form $250 to $300, and also putting a bad product on the ice - people are going to stop showing up quite so often.

[piper1]

Hockey - I've never thought they were as bad for it as the the other sports, but it's getting worse and worse.

You can pin all of it on Bettman.

[30ranfordfan]

I would say about 90% of the things Bettman has done since taking over, consider me a fan. In general, I think he's done an excellent job (and continues to).

Longer TV timeouts, more non-game-in-game entertainment to compensate - Yeah, that's got his fingers all over it, and falls under the 10% I don't like.

You can pin all of it on Bettman.

[sparty07]

The ridiculous thing is those Canadians seats probably did actually sell out, just like the Red Wings technically sold all their tickets to opening night at LCA. The sad thing for me was seeing the big gaps of seats where the rally towel that had been placed on every seat was still there halfway through the game (until someone finally took them as extras, which I understand as it was the softest free towel I have ever gotten). I think places like stubhub are actually hurting the ability to put butts in seats as people and companies are buying up tickets speculating on selling tickets for a premium and making a profit. If people see every ticket at above retail price, they aren't going to keep looking close to the game and those seats are going to go unfilled.

This combined with the increase in ticket prices that price out families (I am not paying $70 for the cheapest Hawks ticket to sit in the top 2 rows for a "lesser opponent" and $120 for a "prime" game). We only saw a handful of kids at the red wings game which is sad as that is the type of game a 9-12 year old will remember for their whole life.

[theboxbreaker96]

For me its all about $$$$. I would probably never get to a pens game if it wasnt for the student rush $25 Pens tix for college students

[RGM81]

And here is something about the Canucks game: https://www.kelownanow.com/watercool...t_in_15_years/

Lowest attendance at a game since 2001.

[cardscardscards]

It's a price and accessibility problem for me. The Ottawa market is a great example of bad price management given the horrible geographic location.

- Ticket prices in Ottawa are pretty similar to Montreal and Toronto, but you get 25% of the fun and atmosphere. For a family of 4, it's $400 to sit in the 300-level and listen to the same music they've been playing for 10 years. Yeah, Nickelback and Blur's Song 2 WERE a thing. It's over, get with the times.
- Food and drinks are extremely expensive. $20 for a regular, ordinary hot dog and bland beer? Not unless it's Anthony Bourdain who's serving!
- Getting to the arena takes a while. It's 25 km (14 miles) away from the downtown core and getting out alone makes you never want to go back there.
- It's an extra $20 if you drive over and most of the general parkings aren't even paved 20 years after construction. Seriously??? I love walking and rolling in a big old mud pit, best $20 spent ever! Care to use some of those fat profits to pave them at least?

Sure, there's cost-saving measures and sometimes you can get a bit of a deal when they run promos, but even if I nickle 'n dime my way in, I'm still out at least $300 to see some millionaire kids play while I sit in an overblown fridge.

I have an app that gives me live scores and I can watch a 2 minute replay the very next day with all the highlights. All from the comfort of wherever I feel like being at that moment.

[30ranfordfan]

Access / Location is certainly a big thing for a lot of people. I know there has been talk for years about a new rink for the Senators (in downtown) - and I think it's going to happen?

I used to to go to 5-10 Blue Jay games a year in Toronto...... I live about 100 KM away... I have been to 1 in the last 2 years. Part of that is I don't have the free time I used to, but a but part of it is also how time consuming getting there is. For me to get to a 1:00 game on a Saturday... and ensure I'm there for the first pitch... I can't leave any later than 11:00 AM. Even then, it will be tight. The game should end around 4:00, so I can't reasonably expect to be home before 6:00... and that can turn into 7:00 pretty quickly. I want to go to a 3 hour(ish) baseball game. Is it worth the minimum 4 hours in the car to do so? Going to that game, basically, eats up the entire day for me.

Of course the Jays do work well for folks that live in downtown Toronto, on the Subway line. The attendance has been great the last years - so this is really a problem for people who live out of town, rather than in it.

If you're going to build a rink the suburbs (like Ottawa did) you're killing it for people who live in town.

It's a price and accessibility problem for me. The Ottawa market is a great example of bad price management given the horrible geographic location.

- Ticket prices in Ottawa are pretty similar to Montreal and Toronto, but you get 25% of the fun and atmosphere. For a family of 4, it's $400 to sit in the 300-level and listen to the same music they've been playing for 10 years. Yeah, Nickelback and Blur's Song 2 WERE a thing. It's over, get with the times.
- Food and drinks are extremely expensive. $20 for a regular, ordinary hot dog and bland beer? Not unless it's Anthony Bourdain who's serving!
- Getting to the arena takes a while. It's 25 km (14 miles) away from the downtown core and getting out alone makes you never want to go back there.
- It's an extra $20 if you drive over and most of the general parkings aren't even paved 20 years after construction. Seriously??? I love walking and rolling in a big old mud pit, best $20 spent ever! Care to use some of those fat profits to pave them at least?

Sure, there's cost-saving measures and sometimes you can get a bit of a deal when they run promos, but even if I nickle 'n dime my way in, I'm still out at least $300 to see some millionaire kids play while I sit in an overblown fridge.

I have an app that gives me live scores and I can watch a 2 minute replay the very next day with all the highlights. All from the comfort of wherever I feel like being at that moment.