Where does Sidney Crosby Rank All-Time?

[creasecollector]

Great question, so hard to answer. I put him top 6.

[sparty07]

Side question for everyone evaluating these people. If you say of all time, do you include Tretiak in your analysis of top 10? I personally put him above Roy, Broduer and Sawchuk

[09232003]

This is a hard question to answer and evaluate

if you think about all the players before him, goalies are in a different list

If you are looking at just forwards/centres then I Sidney Crosby in the top 5 for sure.
His credentials show just why.

as for goalies I think we need a different thread just for the top 10 of goalies.

also we must take into consideration the time when players played, 40's-50's-60's-70's-80's-90- and today

thanks

[Jameis1of1]

GREAT replies everyone; ya'll are educating me and I appreciate it.

I'd love to see some of your top 10 lists (including goalies) with Sid ranked in them, for those of you who would have him in the top 10.

It sounds like the Goalies would be, in no particular order, Sawchuck (and I admit, I have no idea who that is), Patrick Roy, Brodeur and Hasek and the non-goalies would be Gretzky, Orr, Howe, Lemiuex and Crosby ... and one more mystery player?

So ... would a rank like this be plausible:

1. Gretzky
2. Orr
3. Howe
4. Mario
5. Crosby
6. Sawchuk
7. Roy
8. Hasek
9. Brodeur
10. ??? Jagr, Yzerman, Rocket Richard, ???

[subban7677]

Jagr could take that spot. I think Rocket Richard belongs ahead of Sawchuk. Doug Harvey doesn't get a lot of love. He's probably the second best defenseman in the history of the game. (I'm a Habs fan, so grain of salt here). Mark Messier deserves consideration. I think you could also make a case for Jacques Plante being a better goalie than Roy. So tough. You could poll real "experts" and their lists will begin to differ greatly after the first few spots. I am just not ready to give Crosby a top 5 spot. Just doesn't sit right with me.

[bdiam]

You're a football guy - did you ever see Barry Sanders play? If so, multiply x10 and that was Bobby Orr. Imagine if a RB led the league in rushing yards but also think of the impossible and imagine that the same RB led the league in pass receptions, receiving yards and TD's - this was Bobby Orr. He was so good at times, that he purposely "geared-down" so-as to not embarrass people.

For me, Crosby is not even top-15 right now. It's tough to put any player still playing in an all-time list. With that said, if he remains healthy and puts another solid 4-5 years onto his resume, that would likely put him into the top-ten.......but unlikely to crack the top-5, which is reserved for the "immortals" of the game.

As far as goalies go, Roy and Brodeur may have the stats and the rings which definitely matter but they really aren't even in the same class as a Terry Sawchuk. When you have some free time, go and look at pictures of the goalie equipment that goalies wore from the 50's-80's. Then look at what they wear today. Goalie equipment was originally designed to protect the goalie but over-time, has become a way for goalies to stop the puck. If you took a Terry Sawchuk, Jacques Plante, Glenn Hall, Tretiak and increased the size of their equipment by 20-40% and then subsequently added that same percentage to their stats, no modern-day goalie would ever even creep into any conversation.

GREAT replies everyone; ya'll are educating me and I appreciate it.

I'd love to see some of your top 10 lists (including goalies) with Sid ranked in them, for those of you who would have him in the top 10.

It sounds like the Goalies would be, in no particular order, Sawchuck (and I admit, I have no idea who that is), Patrick Roy, Brodeur and Hasek and the non-goalies would be Gretzky, Orr, Howe, Lemiuex and Crosby ... and one more mystery player?

So ... would a rank like this be plausible:

1. Gretzky
2. Orr
3. Howe
4. Mario
5. Crosby
6. Sawchuk
7. Roy
8. Hasek
9. Brodeur
10. ??? Jagr, Yzerman, Rocket Richard, ???

[Jameis1of1]

You're a football guy - did you ever see Barry Sanders play? If so, multiply x10 and that was Bobby Orr.

I watched Barry play in person and watched almost every game he ever played and what you're saying sounds like the equivalent to "sports blasphemy" to me as Barry was unquestionably - at least in my mind - the best pure runner that has ever played in the NFL, and there isn't even a close 2nd ... so if Orr was 10x THAT, he'd basically have been God on ice and would have won the MVP and the Stanley Cup every year he played and that certainly didn't happen.

Imagine if a RB led the league in rushing yards but also think of the impossible and imagine that the same RB led the league in pass receptions, receiving yards and TD's - this was Bobby Orr. He was so good at times, that he purposely "geared-down" so-as to not embarrass people.

Oh, okay, I understand what you're saying ... Marshall Faulk is closer to the type of player you're describing above as he's the only RB I think ever even could have had a shot at leading the league in rushing yards, catches and TDs ... but even he never came close to pulling it off. However, if Orr was a good as you say, should he have always won defenseman of the year, the scoring title, the MVP and the Stanley Cup every year he played? I don't know much about him and am going to google him now to see what he did as he was obviously amazing ...

[/quote]For me, Crosby is not even top-15 right now. It's tough to put any player still playing in an all-time list. With that said, if he remains healthy and puts another solid 4-5 years onto his resume, that would likely put him into the top-ten.......but unlikely to crack the top-5, which is reserved for the "immortals" of the game.[/quote]

Please list YOUR personal top 15 right now, in order.

I can understand your point of view about it being hard to put an active player on an all-time list but every sport has it's modern transcendent stars that deserve to be placed high on all-time lists, such as LeBron in the NBA, Pujols and Trout in MLB, Brady/Rodgers/Watt/Adrian Peterson in the NFL ... and I'd think Crosby in the NHL ...

As far as goalies go, Roy and Brodeur may have the stats and the rings which definitely matter but they really aren't even in the same class as a Terry Sawchuk. When you have some free time, go and look at pictures of the goalie equipment that goalies wore from the 50's-80's. Then look at what they wear today. Goalie equipment was originally designed to protect the goalie but over-time, has become a way for goalies to stop the puck. If you took a Terry Sawchuk, Jacques Plante, Glenn Hall, Tretiak and increased the size of their equipment by 20-40% and then subsequently added that same percentage to their stats, no modern-day goalie would ever even creep into any conversation.

I don't mean this as an insult, as you obviously have forgotten more about hockey than I will probably ever know, but you sort of sound like the guys who think everything that happened in the past is superior to what is happening now. Now, I'm not automatically saying everything happening now is greater than everything that happened in the past ... but ... it is obvious that athletes in every sport are bigger/stronger/faster now than they were back in the day and that the level of competition is higher now than it ever has been in the past. However, you make an interesting point with the padding being 20-40% larger today as there isn't an equivalent in basketball, as it's not like the rim circumference was 20-40% smaller back in the early days of the NBA, etc, and therefore you might be 100% correct ... I've got some googling to do!

[bdiam]

Bobby Orr only played for around ten seasons and half of those seasons, he basically played on one leg. Most historians would say that the greatest hockey team ever assembled was the 1976 Canada Cup team. At one point in time, I believe 16/21 players were in the Hall of Fame. Don't listen to me as far as his greatness but rather what some of the greatest players in the game said about him.

Barry Sanders is the only athlete that I have seen that did what Bobby Orr did. Basically, 3-4 Pro-Bowl players could surround him and two-seconds later, they would all be laying on the ground having tackled nothing but air. To-date, Bobby Orr is the only player in the history of hockey who single-handedly changed the way that it was played. Along with the fact that he is one of the clasiest gentleman around, is the reason why I hold him in such high esteem.

Not sure if we're allowed to post links in our posts (sorry if we're not) but take a quick look at this and see/hear for yourself.




As far as your one line about today's players being "bigger", "faster", etc. yes, I've heard this in various sports for the past twenty-years. I always counter with the same answer - bigger, faster, stronger - doesn't mean "better".

[Jameis1of1]

^ Thanks for the video link; I look forward to watching it ... and I agree with you about Barry, the little Lion King was other-worldly!

[Drewk86a]

OF course, I am influenced by my era, but with so many great players out there it is hard for me to put Crosby in the top 10. Also - I would separate goalies from skaters.

My top 10 would include in no particular order, except for #1 & #2: Gretz, Lemieux, Yzerman, Howe, Hull, Jagr, Richard, Orr...

I don't put much stock in the "he never won a cup" argument since there are many great players who've never won one. Also - you have to consider that Crosby has Malkin, too. Would Crosby have been as successful without Malkin?