The Official JAMEIS WINSTON Thread

[PhilElliot]

just showing Jameis1of1 , I got this in a hanger pack 85/99

jammm.png

[SuperZeke50]

I bring up Fantasy because you keep talking about Stats... Stats matter in Fantasy. That's the only place they matter. I have never seen anyone look at a stat of what players have accomplished at Age 24. It means nothing to what the rest of their career will be. You sit here ready to crown Winston the BEST QB OF ALL TIME, statistically. That is what seems silly. And no, none of those things you reference are worthy of recognition. When he wins, he'll get recognition. Until then, he's still just a mediocre NFL quarterback, like so many others.

[Jameis1of1]

I bring up Fantasy because you keep talking about Stats... Stats matter in Fantasy.

Stats matter in assessing individual talent, fantasy is irrelevant … or do you think Tarkenton, Fouts, Marino, Kelly and Moon all got into the Hall of Fame based on all the rings they won (ZERO COMBINED IN 70+ YEARS OF NFL FOOTBALL), or that Barry Sanders is widely considered one of the two best RBs who ever lived despite having won only one measly playoff game in his entire career?

TEAM wins mean NOTHING in evaluating players … the NFL is no different than the NCAA … just as no GM worth his salt would have drafted McKenzie Milton, the QB of the 13-0 UCF Golden Knights ahead of Josh Allen who had a career record of just 15-9 against FBS teams, so to would no NFL GM worth his salt take a guy like Case Keenum or Blake Bortles, both of which made the playoffs last year, over guys like Rivers, Jameis, Russell Wilson and others who missed the playoffs.

Which NCAA QBs had the most wins, and in your mind were therefore the greatest "winners" in NCAA history? Kellen Moore (NCAA record 50 wins), Colt McCoy (2nd most wins ever with 45), Tebow, Tommie Frazier, Matt Leinhart? All five of those guys never made it big in the NFL.

TEAM wins mean nothing ... again, I have no idea why you're finding such a logical concept hard to understand ...

That's the only place they matter.

You're 100% wrong … it's the most important factor in assessing individual talent … obviously. TEAM wins mean nothing.

I have never seen anyone look at a stat of what players have accomplished at Age 24. It means nothing to what the rest of their career will be.

You don't watch ESPN? They ran the graphic. And, of course it means something to how a career will progress as career stats are accumulated from the time you start playing … obviously. Aaron Rodgers sat on a bench for 3 years … that will hurt his career numbers. He may be able to retire with the highest passer rating in NFL history (maybe) but he likely has not shot at the passing yards or passing TD records that Drew Brees will likely soon hold … it is what it is.

You sit here ready to crown Winston the BEST QB OF ALL TIME, statistically.

Um, no, not even close. I've never said anything remotely close to that. I state the fact that Jameis is the most statistically accomplished QB of his age that has ever played … that's just a fact. However, injuries and the like will have a lot to say as to whether or not he retires as the most statistically accomplished QB of all-time. Only God knows the future. However, I "projected" with Kobe and LeBron and was on the money with them and I feel more confident about Jameis than I did about Kobe (who rode the bench his first 2 years and even in year 3 when he was putting on highlight reels every game, was seen as an aloof and arrogant ball-hog).

That is what seems silly.

I agree that would be silly … the only thing is, I never said that … so it's sort of a weird point for you to be making, no?

And no, none of those things you reference are worthy of recognition.

I'm sorry but that's just an asinine statement. If Saquon Barkley comes out and becomes the ONLY RB to ever start his career with back to back 1,000(rushing)/1,000(receiving) seasons and after three years is the youngest RB to 5,000 career rushing yards and 50 career TDs … I don't care if the Giants "team" goes 0-48 in those 3 years, Saquon himself will be worthy of recognition and deserve all the praise he would obviously receive!

When he wins, he'll get recognition. Until then, he's still just a mediocre NFL quarterback, like so many others.

Firstly, he had a winning record in his 2nd year, at 22 years of age, so he's already "won" which is entirely irrelevant to me.

Secondly, you equate TEAM wins with individual excellence … I'm sorry but I find that both naïve and just downright foolish … unless you're also willing to admit that Blake Bortles was a better QB than Russell Wilson last year and Tyrod Taylor was a better QB than Philip Rivers last year, as Bortles and Taylor made the playoffs while Wilson and Rivers watched them from home.

OBVIOUSLY football is "the ultimate TEAM game" and QBs do not block for themselves, catch their own passes, play defense, play special teams, etc., so obviously using TEAM wins to evaluate INDIVIDUAL greatness is an exercise in futility and the height of insanity from a football perspective, no?




P.S. @PhilElliot … cool card!

[Devlin]

Kid is having tough yr.

[SuperZeke50]

Apparently NIKE doesn't care that he's the most statistically accomplish QB under the age of 24.

[Jameis1of1]

Apparently NIKE doesn't care that he's the most statistically accomplish QB under the age of 24.

Haha, yes, apparently having an entirely unsubstantiated allegation against you 4 grazing your fingers across the top of someone's pants is far worse than actually being known 4 polluting rivers in China, polluting air in many villages, drastically under-paying foreign workers, etc?

https://maybedoit.weebly.com/unveili...hind-nike.html


Of course, I doubt Jameis cares about Nike not renewing his contract … they did the same thing with Rodger Federer … Jameis has "Super Agents" fighting to represent him and after he chooses an agent he'll likely sign a new contract with Puma or Reebok, etc.

[Jameis1of1]

Jameis Winston at age 21-23
had 61 TO's in 45 games while throwing or running 1,684 times = 3.62% TO rate

Tom Brady at age 24-26 (his first 3 years starting)
had 62 TO's in 47 games w/ throwing or running 1,661 times = 3.73% TO rate

[SuperZeke50]

Digging up articles from 4 or 8 years ago to drag NIKE through the mud... We're not debating NIKE. And as for Winston, he did apologize. People rarely do that unless they've done something wrong.

Haha, yes, apparently having an entirely unsubstantiated allegation against you 4 grazing your fingers across the top of someone's pants is far worse than actually being known 4 polluting rivers in China, polluting air in many villages, drastically under-paying foreign workers, etc?

https://maybedoit.weebly.com/unveili...hind-nike.html


Of course, I doubt Jameis cares about Nike not renewing his contract … they did the same thing with Rodger Federer … Jameis has "Super Agents" fighting to represent him and after he chooses an agent he'll likely sign a new contract with Puma or Reebok, etc.

[Jameis1of1]

Digging up articles from 4 or 8 years ago to drag NIKE through the mud... We're not debating NIKE.

Oh, so it's okay to crucify Jameis for something that "allegedly" happened 2.5 years ago but it's terrible to mention horrible things Nike absolutely did from 4 years ago? Gotcha … what was I thinking? Hahahahahaha.

And as for Winston, he did apologize. People rarely do that unless they've done something wrong.

You are 100% wrong. Jameis has NEVER apologized for doing what he was accused of doing (any of the driver's 3 different versions). Way back when the article broke he immediately apologized for being in the situation and then months later after the suspension was announced he again said that he was sorry for putting HIMSELF in such a situation. He has maintained all throughout that he didn't do what he was accused of and that he is disappointed the NFL suspended him without proof … he has NEVER even come close to apologizing for anything other than taking a drunk Uber ride.

[Jameis1of1]

I was recently invited to participate in a debate with other statistical experts and the like in a debate about "Under 25" QBs and I of course choose to debate for Jameis. It's been fun so far and I doubt anyone will beat me as I don't lose debates (not because I'm so intelligent, though that certainly helps, but because I don't ever rely on mere "opinions" when I debate and instead use stats as the basis for the points I make) and also because one statistician is defending Josh Rosen, which may turn the focus of the debate onto arm talent (which Jameis has in spades), as Rosen hasn't played a single NFL game yet and cannot truly be critiqued on an NFL level.

However, the reason I am posting here is because the fella who was debating against me for Dak Prescott brought up "turnovers" and Jameis as a way to paint Jameis as "turnover prone". Now, I have long known that the concept that Jameis is "turnover prone" could be considered "fake news" if it could be proved the talking heads making such claims, actually did any real research or knew the history of the QB position … but since it's likely they don't, it may just be a case of pure ignorance, rather than "fake news".

Regardless, I'll post the below, which I also posted in the debate (and which silenced the fella debating for Dak) as I imagine it will open some people's eyes on this forum as well:

Jameis Winston at age 21-23
had 61 TO's in 45 games while throwing or running 1,684 times = 3.62% TO rate

Tom Brady at age 24-26 (his first 3 years starting)
had 62 TO's in 47 games w/ throwing or running 1,661 times = 3.73% TO rate

Now, obviously, no one in their right mind says that Tom Brady is, or ever even was, "turnover prone", yet the fact remains that when Brady was 24-26 years of age and known as a mere "game manager", he had a WORSE TURNOVER RATE than Jameis Winston has had at the ages of 21-23 and while he's been known as a Favre-esque "wild gunslinger".

THAT is not something you'll hear from the media, as it doesn't fit the narrative they're trying to spin, but it's the absolute truth … Jameis Winston from ages 21-23 has been less turnover prone than the great Tom Brady was from ages 24-26!