The hobby is doomed...

[pwaldo]

I've been hearing this hobby is doomed since 1991 and I'm not joking. Some reporter for Beckett at that time was crying that the National had an attendance drop and that sales were in the toilet and that it wouldn't be long before the hobby was over. That was how many decades ago now? So I'll believe it when I see it.

Also I still haven't seen anybody ever name one industry that solely relies on "kids" to stay in business. I mean why would you base your company on a user base that has no job, little to no money, and can't drive or buy your product off the internet because they aren't old enough? Heck with Kids R Us already out of business and Toys R Us on the way out it should tell you that kids do not buy squat and that if you cater to them your aren't long for the business world. It makes no sense to clamor for kids with pockets full of coins to fill up a card show when one guy with a $150,000 a year job will buy and bust more wax than all of those kids combined will. But that's just my opinion.

[Maggot]

Also I still haven't seen anybody ever name one industry that solely relies on "kids" to stay in business. I mean why would you base your company on a user base that has no job, little to no money, and can't drive or buy your product off the internet because they aren't old enough? Heck with Kids R Us already out of business and Toys R Us on the way out it should tell you that kids do not buy squat and that if you cater to them your aren't long for the business world. It makes no sense to clamor for kids with pockets full of coins to fill up a card show when one guy with a $150,000 a year job will buy and bust more wax than all of those kids combined will. But that's just my opinion.

Nearly every successful major business tries to make an impact on youngsters in order to create lifelong customers and drive their parents' spending. Kids carts at grocery stores, free suckers at the bank drive through, cigarette advertisement in the past, etc.
Using a tired B&M chain like Toys R Us is not at all a good example, since nearly all B&M stores are struggling. Are you trying to say that toy sales are slipping? I don't think that's correct.

If not the younger generation, where will the next group of collectors come from?

[pwaldo]

Using a tired B&M chain like Toys R Us is not at all a good example, since nearly all B&M stores are struggling.

So "nearly all B&M stores are struggling" but they need to add more retail packs at said struggling stores? Why are brick and mortar stores struggling again?

I mean I could actually buy into the doom and gloom for the card industry or whatever if people took a different stance than I'm not seeing a lot of kids around because if people really want to get into a discussion the amount of kids in the US playing sports or even watching sports is dropping dramatically. The amount of kids that can speak or read English in the US continues to dwindle. The amount of families that have disposable income for hobbies plummeted in the past decade. All of these things would be a fresh new look and be an interesting new debate surrounding the future of the hobby. But the hobby is doomed because not enough kids is totally played out in my opinion.

Also I'm pretty sure Topps, Panini, and Upper Deck have completely offset the lack of kids due to things like international buyers and customers and things like case breakers. I mean a company like Leaf or ITG before really had little to no name recognition from collectors outside of those on the internet. If you ever asked about those companies at a show or shop you would get blank stares by the majority of people and both those companies lasted for years or are still around and in the case of Leaf have lots and lots of cash.

Also I have absolutely no data on it but I'm willing to bet money big time that toy sales in the US have tanked and have been for years. They haven't created a successful toy line in years and even stuff that should move well like the Star Wars lines and Lego stuff have been reduced and are easy to find. You can't keep remaking the Ninja Turtles and Transformers and get mad when everyone gets sick of them.

[Maggot]

This is a chart showing year over year sales increases for toys in the last 5 years https://www.toyassociation.org/ta/re...ales-data.aspx

Sounds like your main point is that there's a market for cards right now. Definitely. No doubt about it. UD should be doing more to ensure that there is a market for cards in the future. Obviously there are many factors at play, but I think having an affordable and easily-accessible entry level product is key.

[piper1]

I don't buy the wimpy whine that a stronger rookie crop is required to save the hobby, there are still plenty of great cards to collect. Those who worry about having RCs that are worth hundreds of dollars each and every year aren't real hobbyists anyway. That lot would probably be happier collecting bitcoins.

[Leafsman]

Couldn't disagree more.

The hobby has been around for over 100 years.

Back in 90-91 when it came out, packs of Upper Deck were $2.50 at the local store. Today, you can get O-Pee-Chee for roughly the same price. There's also lots of low-cost incentives for the kids when they come into stores--my pals at Players Choice always give the kids free packs of the National Hockey Card Day cards, and parents routinely come into the store buying full boxes of product for their kids, or kids themselves who save up their allowances to buy singles cards that they want of their favourite players & teams.

This "think of the children" stuff doesn't really carry water when you actually spend time at the LCS and see how many kids are engaged and involved with the hobby today.

I have a number of points to make on this post.

1. Brick and mortar stores are almost obsolete.

Where I live, the nearest "local" card shop is approximately 270 kilometers/167 miles (or three hours) away. With the price of gasoline being what it is, this makes collecting very difficult. That's strike one for the sports card hobby. Even the nearest Tim Horton's is approximately an hour away.

2. Those that remain are no longer solely dedicated to sports cards. Magic the Gathering, Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokemon, and others are included in the inventories of those stores now. That means people of all ages have other options at the shop. Trust me, giveaways are VERY few and far between where I live. National Hockey Card Day cards are the only giveaways here. It affects the business' bottom line too much. That's another blow to the hobby.

3. An allowance? Do parents still do that? If children save up to buy singles they want with the allowance, it may take a while.

4. Another factor in my area is a decrease in population due to outmigration (which is in direct correlation to my first point). Those that are in the area don't collect cards of any sort.

So in response to the original post, yes - where I live, the hobby is on life support.

[scottkoz20]

I'm going to throw a couple log onto the fire for this debate - which is spirited!

One of the common refrains that is out there is people only want a licensed product. So for Hockey, you are left with Upper Deck, for Football/Basketball you have Panini for Baseball you have Topps (and Panini for the MLBPA - no logos). I believe this is big problem because there really is stifles competition for your dollar or the ability to be have some products and limits what collectors will potential purchase.

In addition, the leaders in the hobby (manufacturers) seeming do not want to work together to help promote the hobby to generate that next generation, they would rather work alone. For example, Topps does their own promotion for National Baseball Card Day, UD does their own with NHCD, etc. At the Industry Summit last year, Leaf promoted the idea of a National Hobby Card Day, which as of my knowledge has gone no where (this was as of the Toronto Expo in November).

Something that is on my goal list (which I need to post in the next week) is to be a better promoter of events. I know @FrankToronto, @great8, @mundaym23 are posting their shows but SCF needs to be better to alert you all when events are happening in your location and working with promoters. To @Leafsman point, if there is a show that is going to be in an area and he has advanced notice, even though the distance might be 2 hours away, he could make a plan to potentially attend.

What am I saying? The hobby is not dead, far from it IMO, but there are problems that if are not corrected, will lead the hobby down that path.


I'm going to tag @LeafGregg and @bprice to this discussion as I would love to get their take overall on this thread (and I know they login occasionally )

[30ranfordfan]

In addition, the leaders in the hobby (manufacturers) seeming do not want to work together to help promote the hobby to generate that next generation, they would rather work alone. For example, Topps does their own promotion for National Baseball Card Day, UD does their own with NHCD, etc. At the Industry Summit last year, Leaf promoted the idea of a National Hobby Card Day, which as of my knowledge has gone no where (this was as of the Toronto Expo in November).

Reading your post, and this specific part, it immediately brought my mind to the "Cool Trade" redemption in the mid 90s.

It was a wrapper redemption... send in X number of wrappers, get a 3 or 4 "base card" redemption. Then there were redemption cards inserted into packs, that got you silver / foil / refractor (whatever) versions of those same cards.

The cool thing: It wasn't just cross brand, but cross manufacturer. Topps, Upper Deck, Pinnacle, Donruss: They all contributed.

[jackpot]

There's a ton of option for kids with packs at $1.99 or less, mvp, o-pee-chee, canadian tire, tim hortons, walmart, toysrus, dollarama

There's something for every age and budget

[jackpot]

And something else to add, some people takes hockey cards way too seriously, I mean we're talking about hockey cards here, this is not life and death.

I see people that think hockey cards is a hobby for them but it's actually not a hobby, for them it's an integral part of their life, they spent countless hours thinking about hockey cards, they have countless amount of different pc's. Some people get pissed off when something doesn't go their way in a transaction. Just relax people, it's just hockey cards, keep it as a hobby and spend your time on more important stuff.