Curious Question On Rookie and Canvas Card Selections

[coachobrien44]

Hey everyone, I'm not an experienced collector but I am curious on how Rookie classes and cards are decided for each set yearly. I collected in the early 90's as a kid then got back into the hobby 2015-16 by collecting UD MVP and Series 1 and 2 yearly since then. But last year I have fallen in love with the Canvas sets.

I think this year's Series 2 class for YG's and YG Canvas are a solid class with Dahlin, Petersson, Kotkaniemi, Hart, Tkachuk to name a few. But I am a bit disappointed in not seeing a Mackenzie Blackwood Canvas YG produced. There has been some rookie's over the past few year's that I would love to have seen Canvas YG's of Matt Murray, Casey DeSmith, Yanne Gourde for example. I know these few guys I just named are in the SP UD Update set but maybe adding their Canvas YG card to the next Series 1 Canvas set would be good.

Then how is the Program of Excellence cards decided? I'm surprised not to see cards of Blackwood or Hart in the POE set or even Ethan Bear who captained the U18 team Canada and won the Worlds. Drake Batherson was a big part of the gold medal team in Buffalo also not in the POE set. Then seeing Nolan Patrick as the top card in last year's set along with players like Carrier not even making to World Jr or participating on the team.

If someone can shed some light for me on how the cards are selected that would be great. I'm not looking to start a debate on who should or shouldn't be in the sets, it's more how the process of how things are selected. Look forward to making some deals with you on completing the sets.

[RGM81]

A lot of the time it comes down to when the player makes their debut, the impact that UD thinks they'll have, and of course just how many spots are available on the checklist.

Sometimes a player will debut with very little fanfare, or later in the season which can really limit the opportunity to create cards. Say a guy makes his NHL debut in late November; it's already too late for him to be in Series 1, so that just leaves Series 2. The amount of prep work that goes into some sets is months of lead time. UD is strategic with the checklists for the YG's and Canvas YG's, trying to ensure that there is balance so that both products will be attractive to buyers. Carter Hart is obviously a huge splash right now. They likely "held" a spot for him in the hopes that he would make his NHL debut this season, so that way he could be in both YG and Canvas for Series 2. If he didn't debut, that regular set spot goes to a lesser light and the Canvas could well have been Blackwood's instead.

A 2018-19 rookie cannot have rookie cards or parallels next year, so if they weren't in S2 for a Canvas, you may get a regular Canvas parallel next season but it won't be a Canvas YG.

Same applies to the Canvas POE set - only a small number of spots available and they may have already picked out their list. I agree that Hart would have been a beauty inclusion in that set. I have an awesome photo of him that I got signed last year after the World Juniors when Everett came to Kelowna to play the Rockets and it would have been a no-brainer selection for a card, IMO. Look at this gem:



So yeah it can sometimes be curious, confusing, and annoying with player omissions...often it's not really until the benefit of hindsight comes into play, but this year has had some strange ones happening. It took UD a fair bit of time to get really rolling out the Kotkaniemi stuff....but boy now that it is, Habs fans are having fun. LOL

[Savard18]

Like the OP I collected as a kid in late 80's thru the mid-90's and got back into the hobby about 18 months ago, and I too have some Upper Deck questions despite the fact I have probably bought 50+ boxes over the last 18 months....

Are there any legitimate rookie cards in regular upper deck that aren't Young Guns? or are all UD rookies strictly Young Guns?...

I have an older Beckett from November and I haven't seen any... I mean I know it was common in the late 80's and early 90's to not even acknowledge that a player was a rookie on the front of their cards unless they were highly touted prospects or stars right off the bat... So I'm wondering if any modern players have rookies that aren't Young Guns..

Also 2016-17 Upper Deck series 1 is the set that got me back into collecting, and since we're talking about canvas cards and Young Guns - has anyone noticed that Canadians goalie Charlie Lindgren had a Young Guns canvas in Upper Deck series 1, however his "base" Young Guns appeared in series 2.. Did anyone other than me notice that? and if so why do you think that was? why would UD release a canvas Young Guns in series 1 but then wait to release the "base" Young Guns until series 2?

And to be honest with you, it would be a very creative and smart marketing ploy on the part of Upper Deck if they released Series 1 Canvas Young Guns in Series 2 and released Series 2 Young Guns in Series 1... If they did that they would sell a lot more cards of both series (not that Upper Deck even needs to sell more cards considering they basically have a monopoly on the hobby).... Because IMO if there aren't any good Young Guns in a series I wont buy it... Sure, some of the inserts are cool, and Upper Decks photography from an aesthetic perspective is second to none, and it's too bad base cards have no value at but the the truth is I buy cards these days looking for hits, I don't buy them looking for my favorite players unless that card is a hit, I mean don't get me wrong as a Hawks fan I hoard Hawks base cards and do enjoy pulling Kane, Toews, Keith, Seabrook, Hossa, Crawford etc but those are consolation prizes, what I want are hits, I want the $200.00 Auston Matthews YG (I've actually pulled 7 if you count the 2 "jumbo's").... I also wish Upper Deck included all inserts in all of their boxes/packs... Because it seems any format you get be it a blaster box, tin, retail box, hobby box, blaster packs etc - there are inserts exclusive to those formats, and unfortunately with the rise of ebay/amazon etc local card shops are becoming extinct and not everyone (even if you live in a major city) has reasonable access to a card shop which usually have much betters selections than Walmart, Target, K-Mart and your typical "super stores" - especially here in the United States where the major retail outlets have little options for hockey cards - if they have hockey cards at all... Your typical major retail outlet here in Chicago may - if you're lucky - have 2-3 Upper Deck blaster boxes on hand, 3-4 tins (which I hate) and perhaps 3-10 fat packs each of Upper Deck, Upper Deck MVP and Parkhurst .. And I love fat packs, some people disagree with me but I've had great luck with fat packs - especially UD - I've pulled quite a few major YG's out of Fat Packs like McDavid, Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Tkachuk, Middlestadt etc- at one point or another I have pulled all the major YG's from 15-16 to 17-18 (I'm still working on 18-19) but I generally find my biggest hits in Fat Packs, although I have found plenty in blaster boxes and I don't have anything positive to say about the Tins...So usually when I go grocery shopping I always checkout the card aisle, and if they have Fat Packs I buy all of them, and if they have some blaster boxes I grab them as well - but the tins are horrible.. Blaster boxes are usually $19.99, and the tins? $28.99 and I have seen them as high as $31.99 - as a matter of fact a few months back I had the urge to break a box or at the very least some packs so I went to the Walmart and the only hockey cards they had was ONE tin of 2017-18 Upper Deck Series 2 for $31.99 .. I spend 20 minutes sifting through their unorganized card section looking for at least 1 blaster box or some Fat Packs and found nothing, so I ended up buying a few "fat packs" er "jumbo/rack packs" of 2018 Topps Heritage baseball - and I only bought them because I do collect vintage baseball so I really like the 1969 card designs, however I don't know a damn thing about modern baseball at all, I don't know who the good rookies are or anything (I know the major players but) - I was just hoping for relics, autos, SP's, variations or other inserts that I could use as traders for hockey cards.. Lucky for me I pulled an Aaron Judge that was worth some $$$ and a Geovani Soto GU card and as a Cubs fan that was pretty cool, but still I wanted hockey and they had none, except for that one tin which I actually considered buying - I tried to convince myself that it was an omen, and that there had to be a "huge hit" because it was the only hockey cards they had, but luckily I'm not stupid so I didn't bother wasting $31.99 + tax on a tin of 17-18 UD Series 2...

[RGM81]

To answer some of these questions:

The True RC in Series 1 and Series 2 are Young Guns. They’re the staple rookie card in the staple product of the last 30 years in our hobby. Other UD releases have RC that aren’t Young Guns.

Plenty of players over the course of the past few years have had a Canvas YG in Series 1 and their standard YG in Series 2. It’s a way for UD to spread the wealth around and ensure that there is value in S2, which is traditionally broken (and produced) in much lower numbers than Series 1. If you want a real challenge finding an older YG, guys like Marchand, Seguin, Drouin and Gaudreau all get a little value boost simply because their YGs are relatively scarce to the bigger names found in Series 1 of their class.

When it comes to retail, it’s an old trick to spread the inserts across different release platforms so that people have options to get what they prefer. Some like the Jumbo YG, others like the Winter Classic inserts, etc. For me when I buy retail I go for the best YG-per-dollar ratio. Tins usually have 3 YG so they cost a little more. There’s the special “Thanksgiving” release blasters that also have the third YG and usually a semi-exclusive insert to them. Be grateful the US cost is as low as it is—tins up here in Canada can run $50 now!

[coachobrien44]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback. I love the YG's and Canvas YG's it would just just been awesome if all players got a Canvas YG and YG. I enjoy this set more than anything else yearly. I'd love to see Upper Deck get a little creative from time to time and bring out something outside the box like last year's Canadian Tire Set.

My dream set would an All Time World Juniors or International set that would have a base set, SP's, with autos, clear cuts, canvas, and something like top scorers yearly that are rare finds.

All so would love to Upper Deck add a few Canvas cards in the Upper Update set that comes out with SPA in the spring. Example like a Hart POE Canvas.

Enjoy and good luck on here with your collecting!!

[KAB-1993]

To answer your question on whether there are true rookies in Upper Deck Flagship product that aren't a Young Guns.... there is only ONE that I know of. That would be Mike Green from the 2005-06 Upper Deck product, forget if it is Series 1 or 2, but the card is a regular base card yet his true rookie card from that product. Not too sure the story behind why, but Beckett recognizes it as such.

[30ranfordfan]

Like the OP I collected as a kid in late 80's thru the mid-90's and got back into the hobby about 18 months ago, and I too have some Upper Deck questions despite the fact I have probably bought 50+ boxes over the last 18 months....

Are there any legitimate rookie cards in regular upper deck that aren't Young Guns? or are all UD rookies strictly Young Guns?...

I have an older Beckett from November and I haven't seen any... I mean I know it was common in the late 80's and early 90's to not even acknowledge that a player was a rookie on the front of their cards unless they were highly touted prospects or stars right off the bat... So I'm wondering if any modern players have rookies that aren't Young Guns..

Mike Green, 2005-06 Upper Deck Series 2 #438, is the last one I can remember.

[Savard18]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback. I love the YG's and Canvas YG's it would just just been awesome if all players got a Canvas YG and YG. I enjoy this set more than anything else yearly. I'd love to see Upper Deck get a little creative from time to time and bring out something outside the box like last year's Canadian Tire Set.

My dream set would an All Time World Juniors or International set that would have a base set, SP's, with autos, clear cuts, canvas, and something like top scorers yearly that are rare finds.

All so would love to Upper Deck add a few Canvas cards in the Upper Update set that comes out with SPA in the spring. Example like a Hart POE Canvas.

Enjoy and good luck on here with your collecting!!

UD is about 30 years ahead of you, lol...

Upper Deck has done all of that thru the years.... They've had Young Guns since their inception in 1990-91.. Fedorov, Bure, Bondra etc - their UD RC's are YG's.. Then in 1991-92, UD did do a National/OLY and WJC sub-series.. As a matter of fact Paul Kariya's TRUE RC is from that 1991-92 set (but found in the parallel UD Czech WJC subset)... Beyond OPC/Topps that WJC parallel set is probably the first in hobby history (at least in hockey)..

In 1991-92 Upper Deck also had a small "throwback" subset which it featured a handful of "NHL Heroes" who had retired recently to the sets release.. Of course Pro Set did the same.