How do you feel about cutting cards out of uncut sheets? is it acceptable, good, bad terrible?

[cygnusx1]

Oh no, one of "these" on a sports card site.

Inevitable, since social gatherings, protests, cry-ins, safe-space sales have declined.

For you education:

H1N1 Influenza A - "The Spanish Flu" - may have killed up to 100-million humans in the 1918-1920 years. It was given that name - because it came from......Spain.

Oh no, someone may have had a heart attack after reading this (or soiled themselves), clean-up in aisles 3 please.

MERS - "Middle East Respiratory Syndrome" - another contagious and at times deadly virus. It was give that name - because it came from........The Middle East.

Deep-breaths, deep breaths, Justin and his free cheques are still coming.

Ebola............another serious virus.........named after a river in Africa.........in the 1970's.

Covid-19 - originated in which gov't run lab and in which region of China?

None of these viruses (blame) have anything to do with the ordinary people from any of these regions around the world and nobody is saying that it does. Nor is anyone laying blame on any person.

Soy-Boy Lives Matter - just not to me.

Take your hurt feelings and your hurt back-side to the CBC forums - they will all call you hero there.

This Thread is about "hockey cards" and "cutting cards" - not about making yourself more attractive to the girl down the street who doesn't shave her armpits.

Also the Spanish flu has been confirmed to originate in the USA

[Savard18]

Speaking as someone who has collected for most of their life (and primarily what can now be referred to as "vintage" cards), using modern tools and technology to cut, trim or "prepare" a card from the 1960's, 70's or 80's is """no""" different than re-patching a Cup card!

In-short, owning a professionally cut card should give you the same pride as owning your re-patched Cup RC. Every vintage collector that I personally deal with - feels exactly the same way.

As far as PSA goes, they knowingly graded the Honus Wagner RC that several people within their own organization informed them had likely been trimmed. However, since that time, certain individuals within the company have done their best to improve upon their standards and integrity. This specifically included - to not grade professionally cut cards - which many of their key people rightfully felt was fraud and an abomination.

As fortunes would go, the Wuhan Flu pandemic has seen their business sky-rocket - as much as 50-100% in certain areas.

Despite increasing their staff, they are still unable to keep-up with orders today.

Unfortunately for collectors, this has meant that some professionally cut cards started to "get thru". Once that damn was breached, it has now burst and larger and larger amounts of these "fake" cards are now not only graded but seeing the light of day on ebay and other auction sites.

There is no point in keeping a beat up old sheet of cards with perfectly good stars which can be cut. I wouldn't cut a card from a nice sheet, that I would find egregious - but a beat up sheet or a sheet that had been already cut into panels is a different situation - especially when it comes to "vintage"...

I could put my 81/82 OPC Messier side by side with another 81/82 Messier or any card for that matter and no collector - not even a professional grader - could spot the difference... I mean if I was to sell a hand-cut card no potential buyer would question the cut - I've obviously sold plenty of cards and no one has ever questioned the card or anything about it except for an IP auto or something like that..

As far as how I feel about having the cards in my collection? they're legitimate authentic cards so how should I feel? as far as I'm concerned the hand-cut cards are just as legitimate as a card you would pull from a pack, vending box etc...

Of course there are box bottoms too and collectors cut those and sell them all the time and few care that they've been cut....

But yea, like I pointed out - I cut the cards because the sheet had already been cut, the panels were in terrible shape and some of the key cards from the set were salvageable..

[cjb]

wow this thread has taken an ugly turn ..... lol

I haven't read every message on this thread but it's a great philosophical topic.

Is it morally wrong to cut (professionally) an old sheet of hockey cards today and sell them to a second party without telling them that it was professional cut recently?

[bdiam]

There is no point in keeping a beat up old sheet of cards with perfectly good stars which can be cut. I wouldn't cut a card from a nice sheet, that I would find egregious - but a beat up sheet or a sheet that had been already cut into panels is a different situation - especially when it comes to "vintage"...

I could put my 81/82 OPC Messier side by side with another 81/82 Messier or any card for that matter and no collector - not even a professional grader - could spot the difference... I mean if I was to sell a hand-cut card no potential buyer would question the cut - I've obviously sold plenty of cards and no one has ever questioned the card or anything about it except for an IP auto or something like that..

As far as how I feel about having the cards in my collection? they're legitimate authentic cards so how should I feel? as far as I'm concerned the hand-cut cards are just as legitimate as a card you would pull from a pack, vending box etc...

Of course there are box bottoms too and collectors cut those and sell them all the time and few care that they've been cut....

But yea, like I pointed out - I cut the cards because the sheet had already been cut, the panels were in terrible shape and some of the key cards from the set were salvageable..

While the communists control social media and are now in charge of the US government, in-short, we can still "agree to disagree" - at least for a few more months.

Ask yourself this one question, if there were no grading companies out there right now and if graded cards didn't bring the premium that they are, would we even be having this discussion?

Like almost everything in life, if you break things down to the lowest common denominator, cutting sheets and selling these "perfect cards" comes down to one thing............greed!

There is a reason why some people have been in the hobby for as long as they have and that is the challenge of trying to finish "that one set" - looking for that "one elusive card" in "this" type of condition.

This eliminates the challenge and subsequently, another group of collectors - which the hobby can't afford to lose.

[bdiam]

wow this thread has taken an ugly turn ..... lol

I haven't read every message on this thread but it's a great philosophical topic.

Is it morally wrong to cut (professionally) an old sheet of hockey cards today and sell them to a second party without telling them that it was professional cut recently?

You can ask yourself one additional question as well and that is - is it morally wrong to take a Cup card with a white patch that you purchased for $20, borrow your wife's scrap-booking supplies, replace the patch with a three-colour patch and sell this "new and improved" version for 10x the amount?

Allot of people would say "yes", it is wrong.

However, re-patching seems to only be getting worse and more wide-spread, so there seem to be a large enough group who have no problem doing exactly that.

Speaking only for myself, I prefer to "not" own any re-patched cards (no matter what they look like), nor do I wish to own "any" 1970's OPC card that was professionally cut last week.

[cjb]

I think there's a difference between the two

by cutting a card from a sheet your not altering the card.like you would be if you were patch replacing.

I wonder if psa can test for that

[Savard18]

While the communists control social media and are now in charge of the US government, in-short, we can still "agree to disagree" - at least for a few more months.

Ask yourself this one question, if there were no grading companies out there right now and if graded cards didn't bring the premium that they are, would we even be having this discussion?

Like almost everything in life, if you break things down to the lowest common denominator, cutting sheets and selling these "perfect cards" comes down to one thing............greed!

There is a reason why some people have been in the hobby for as long as they have and that is the challenge of trying to finish "that one set" - looking for that "one elusive card" in "this" type of condition.

This eliminates the challenge and subsequently, another group of collectors - which the hobby can't afford to lose.

Well, let me start by saying I hate involving politics into the hobby - but I must say that I agree with your political positions.. And quite frankly I have noticed even when it comes to cards and the hobby in general if you say something which someone may find not politically correct they feel the need to step in an insert their politics. Or even in some situations start entire threads that may be hobby or sports related BUT certainly more politically motivated... I don't know about anyone else but one of the main joys of collecting and being part of the hobby is escaping politics which seem to be involved in absolutely everything and anything and if it's not - we know who they are - will certainly ATTEMPT to insert politics... I enjoy talking cards with people because regardless of our politics at least we share the cards and the hobby in common, and to be honest I really hate it when someone makes an off-hand political reference when it comes to sports, cards or the hobby in general - because to me it's nothing more than a nasty attempt at virtue signaling. They're essentially saying "look how morally superior I am that I'm (at least to them) on the right side of history"... It's just disgusting..

Also, if it matters by definition our present government - at least in the United States - is fascist by definition. It's the merger of corporations and government, but calling our present economic model socialist wouldn't be too off.. They've turned crony capitalism into a form of socialism...

Anyway, back to the hobby, uncut sheets and cutting cards from sheets.. Well when I started this thread you can clearly see that I posted pictures of 4 card panels, so the sheet had already been cut, however the panels were extremely flawed and there were perfectly good cards such as Messier and Bourque 2nd year cards, an Andy Moog rooke and a Peter Stastny In Action rookie, and I would rather have those cards as singles in my collection than sitting there in beat up old 4 card panels... Of course my intent was never to send them off to get PSA graded for some sort of monetary gain or to deceive anyone.. I mean If I did consider selling the cards I wouldn't point out that they were hand-cut but it the question was raised I would certainly be honest about it. I mean the cards are absolutely authentic and to me that's the only thing that matters...

So I suppose my position when it comes to cutting sheets it's a little different because the plan was never to cut the panels/sheets - my intention was actually to frame them and hang them on the wall of my card room, but they just didn't look right so I figured I would cut them.... Now what I did is a lot different than someone that goes out and buys uncut sheets and cuts them up hoping for high grade PSA cards... But even if that was the case I really wouldn't find that too egregious, I would call it more of "cutting corners" (no pun intended) than anything else.. I mean I don't put too much emphasis on who/whom cut the cards and what tool was used to cut the cards - those aspects really don't concern me as long as the card is authentic and meets the dimensions of a standard card from that year and that set - if both of that criteria meet my expectations then I'm more than satisfied if I got a good deal.

As far as why I started this thread, I just thought it would be interesting to see other collectors opinions on the issue of cutting cards from sheets.. It seems some are fine with it, others are indifferent and others find it absolutely egregious, repulsive and dishonest, and as the latter is concerned I have absolutely no idea why.. Perhaps they're purists? but if that's the case then what do they do with box bottoms? or cards that were manufactured with the intent of being hand cut?? toss them?... Because I have a lot of that stuff - as a matter of fact I enjoy collecting box bottoms from all sports - that and a I also have a bunch of issues from the 80's of "Baseball Price Guide Monthly" and every issue has quite a few cards that come in in panels which are included in the monthly publication that are meant to be cut out of the magazine then cut into individual cards. Now I haven't done anything with them, they're still in the magazine but they're fun to look at on occasion as a read 35 year old articles about the hobby back in 87 as I scan the ridiculous prices from way back when, lol.

So yea, I don't have an issue with cutting cards from sheets, however to some extent intention matters.

[Savard18]

You can ask yourself one additional question as well and that is - is it morally wrong to take a Cup card with a white patch that you purchased for $20, borrow your wife's scrap-booking supplies, replace the patch with a three-colour patch and sell this "new and improved" version for 10x the amount?

Allot of people would say "yes", it is wrong.

However, re-patching seems to only be getting worse and more wide-spread, so there seem to be a large enough group who have no problem doing exactly that.

Speaking only for myself, I prefer to "not" own any re-patched cards (no matter what they look like), nor do I wish to own "any" 1970's OPC card that was professionally cut last week.

Dude, your example isn't comparable to cutting cards from uncut sheets... You're talking about altering GU material cards such as jerseys and patches, then comparing that to cards cut from an uncut sheets. and doing so is not an altering a card. I mean you would certainly have a point if the discussion being had was about trimmed cards or trimming cards but it's not - it's about cutting authentic cards from authentic sheet and how collectors feel about that.. When a card is cut from an uncut sheet no alteration to the card itself has been made, obviously the cut will be much better by design, but who cares? .... Here is a new saying: "if you cant find a gem mint card, cut one (from an uncut sheet)" lol...

I really don't get the big deal because cutting a card from a sheet isn't even remotely close to egregious or dishonest as dishonestly altering a memorabilia card.. I mean altering a memorabilia card could constitute fraud and could land someone in jail/prison. I've read articles about people being criminally investigated and charged for altering cards, however no one has been or ever will be investigated for cutting cards out of uncut sheets - because it's not fraud...

Besides, someone would have to be really stupid to alter a serial numbered jersey or patch card considering they/re all serial numbered and I'm sure the majority of them xx/99 or so have photographs of them on the internet.

Of course this is why I've always held firm to my idea that there should be a database which collectors could upload their serial numbered cards, not only to prevent deceptive practices like this from occurring but to also track a particular card or cards - that - and to get some sort of a conclusive idea on how many of a particular serial numbered card has already been pulled because that could be a useful tool if you're looking to buy an expensive product in hopes of pulling a big serial numbered hit or auto jersey/patch etc and having a tool which can tell a collector looking to invest in a product just how many of a particular S/N card are potentially left circulation via unopened product.

For example I'm not going to spend $1,000 on a box of cards in which I know 75% of the major hits have already been pulled,,,

Not only that but such a site/database could also put collectors in touch with one-another to buy/sell/trade the card they're looking for.

[LecavalierFan]

I don't like to bring politics into this, but who boy, there is so much wrong here, where do I even start?

Oh no, one of "these" on a sports card site.

Inevitable, since social gatherings, protests, cry-ins, safe-space sales have declined.

For your education:

H1N1 Influenza A - "The Spanish Flu" - may have killed up to 100-million humans in the 1918-1920 years. It was given that name - because it came from......Spain.

First, learn proper grammar. Second, it started in Kansas.

Oh no, someone may have had a heart attack after reading this (or soiled themselves), clean-up in aisles 3 please.

MERS - "Middle East Respiratory Syndrome" - another contagious and at times deadly virus. It was give that name - because it came from........The Middle East.

Well, crap, I guess even broken clocks are right two times a day.[/quote]

Deep-breaths, deep breaths, Justin and his free cheques are still coming.

Ebola............another serious virus.........named after a river in Africa.........in the 1970's.

Here's the second time.

Covid-19 - originated in which gov't run lab and in which region of China?

It is not a Flu (as you miss-stated above):

... the Wuhan Flu...

It is a Coronavirus, a virus which can cause flu-like symptoms. I can see where your ignorance may have misapplied it to being an influenza virus, but it is not one.

It also did not originate in a government run laboratory. It, along with other Coronaviruses (such as MERS-CoV and SARS-CoV, as referenced in this link), start off typically in bats. Since bats are a fairly common delicacy in China, it's not surprising that one person may have ingested one that had this newly mutated strain of Coronavirus in it, and the rest is history.

None of these viruses (blame) have anything to do with the ordinary people from any of these regions around the world and nobody is saying that it does. Nor is anyone laying blame on any person.

Really? Because it seems that is precisely what you're doing, just incorrectly.

Soy-Boy Lives Matter - just not to me.

Take your hurt feelings and your hurt back-side to the CBC forums - they will all call you hero there.

Perhaps you just need to stop posting before you make yourself look like an even bigger a-hole that you already are.

This Thread is about "hockey cards" and "cutting cards" - not about making yourself more attractive to the girl down the street who doesn't shave her armpits.

OK, seriously, just stop. Take a break, get some fresh air from behind the safety of your mask, and stop flinging false accusations around.



To bring the thread back on topic, I don't care if a card is sheet-cut or not. My cousin, a long time ago, was given an uncut sheet of 1966-67 OPC. I tried a few times to get it from him, but to no avail

[bdiam]

Dude, your example isn't comparable to cutting cards from uncut sheets... You're talking about altering GU material cards such as jerseys and patches, then comparing that to cards cut from an uncut sheets. and doing so is not an altering a card. I mean you would certainly have a point if the discussion being had was about trimmed cards or trimming cards but it's not - it's about cutting authentic cards from authentic sheet and how collectors feel about that.. When a card is cut from an uncut sheet no alteration to the card itself has been made, obviously the cut will be much better by design, but who cares? .... Here is a new saying: "if you cant find a gem mint card, cut one (from an uncut sheet)" lol...

I really don't get the big deal because cutting a card from a sheet isn't even remotely close to egregious or dishonest as dishonestly altering a memorabilia card.. I mean altering a memorabilia card could constitute fraud and could land someone in jail/prison. I've read articles about people being criminally investigated and charged for altering cards, however no one has been or ever will be investigated for cutting cards out of uncut sheets - because it's not fraud...

Besides, someone would have to be really stupid to alter a serial numbered jersey or patch card considering they/re all serial numbered and I'm sure the majority of them xx/99 or so have photographs of them on the internet.

Of course this is why I've always held firm to my idea that there should be a database which collectors could upload their serial numbered cards, not only to prevent deceptive practices like this from occurring but to also track a particular card or cards - that - and to get some sort of a conclusive idea on how many of a particular serial numbered card has already been pulled because that could be a useful tool if you're looking to buy an expensive product in hopes of pulling a big serial numbered hit or auto jersey/patch etc and having a tool which can tell a collector looking to invest in a product just how many of a particular S/N card are potentially left circulation via unopened product.

For example I'm not going to spend $1,000 on a box of cards in which I know 75% of the major hits have already been pulled,,,

Not only that but such a site/database could also put collectors in touch with one-another to buy/sell/trade the card they're looking for.

You're an adult, they're your cards and you are free to do with them what you like - at least depending on which state you reside in?

Having/providing a different opinion than your own, doesn't make one person right and the other wrong.

Well, actually it now does - depending on where you live.

No matter what you do with your cards - they are still just pieces of cardboard.


Oh dear, it looks like another Beta-male became triggered and mistakenly posted to the SCF Hockey section (and to this thread), instead of to their I-Hate-My-Country Facebook group.

On the positive side of things, at least the six-hours that they spent typing their post kept them away from their local elementary schools and playgrounds and thus, they continue to adhere to the court orders against them.

While we can agree to disagree on cutting/not-cutting cards Mr. Savard, your thread has acted like a "community service" and has helped protect children in the angry beta-male's community.

For that alone, this thread has been a positive.

Best regards and happy cutting.