2023-24 NBA Thread

[pwaldo]

The thing is the West is loaded while the East is not so if these teams were in the West would they be where they are now in the standings? No so they are a bit inflated in terms of their strength but they will have a much much much easier path to the finals than anybody will out West. So it is really tough to gauge who can actually win a championship especially since so many teams in the East are playoff chokers and the West looks to be transitioning to a new generation of teams that aren't playoff tested (Wolves, Pelicans, Kings) while still having older teams like the Clippers/Lakers/Warriors that you can't really count out until they are eliminated. Very tricky and exciting for playoff time but it makes the whole regular season long and boring now that they expanded it to 10 teams essentially.

[pwaldo]

So who do we have winning the MVP this year? Seems like it is down to Jokic, Shai, Tatum. Really should be Jokic's if the Nuggets get the #1 seed but he already has two and the league doesn't want to be handing it out to him every year. Go look at the guys to have won 3 or more. A very exclusive list. If he doesn't get it Shai would be the anti Jokic vote because outside of the Celtics with the most wins I can't really think of a narrative to give it to Tatum otherwise.

[WilyWestbrook0]

So who do we have winning the MVP this year? Seems like it is down to Jokic, Shai, Tatum. Really should be Jokic's if the Nuggets get the #1 seed but he already has two and the league doesn't want to be handing it out to him every year. Go look at the guys to have won 3 or more. A very exclusive list. If he doesn't get it Shai would be the anti Jokic vote because outside of the Celtics with the most wins I can't really think of a narrative to give it to Tatum otherwise.

SGA is starting to slump and didn't even play last night in the game vs. the Rockets (who are incidentally on a tear; Jalen Green's game has really matured this year, and statistically he's outplaying even SGA this month). I think at this point it comes down to Jokic and Tatum since they will likely have the best records in their respective conferences. In the end, I do think Jokic gets his 3rd. I also think the Nuggets repeat this year, so it won't look too bad for him to be in the 3 MVP company with multiple titles. Moses Malone got 3 and he only has 1 ring.

[pwaldo]

SGA is starting to slump and didn't even play last night in the game vs. the Rockets (who are incidentally on a tear; Jalen Green's game has really matured this year, and statistically he's outplaying even SGA this month). I think at this point it comes down to Jokic and Tatum since they will likely have the best records in their respective conferences. In the end, I do think Jokic gets his 3rd. I also think the Nuggets repeat this year, so it won't look too bad for him to be in the 3 MVP company with multiple titles. Moses Malone got 3 and he only has 1 ring.

I know there is some opposition to Jokic because he is white/European but I still the voters aren't likely to give him 3 not because of the 1 ring thing it just has to do with more of they don't see him as the next "guy" thing. People talked up and hyped Lebron and Durant and you had Curry constantly win before people accepted him as the next face of the game. People are just unwilling to make Jokic that until he basically forces them to. Basically he just isn't "good enough" yet in their eyes to be at that level right now and maybe I do agree with it too because if he wins another MVP this season and then the Nuggets win another championship he is going to shoot up the list of all time greats whether people want him to or not. It is like he is a massive outsider that is unworthy of being the best player in basketball so he has more resistance to break through than others would.

[WilyWestbrook0]

I know there is some opposition to Jokic because he is white/European but I still the voters aren't likely to give him 3 not because of the 1 ring thing it just has to do with more of they don't see him as the next "guy" thing. People talked up and hyped Lebron and Durant and you had Curry constantly win before people accepted him as the next face of the game. People are just unwilling to make Jokic that until he basically forces them to. Basically he just isn't "good enough" yet in their eyes to be at that level right now and maybe I do agree with it too because if he wins another MVP this season and then the Nuggets win another championship he is going to shoot up the list of all time greats whether people want him to or not. It is like he is a massive outsider that is unworthy of being the best player in basketball so he has more resistance to break through than others would.

I don't know if it's the white/European part necessarily, as the league has largely embraced Doncic (who may very well end up with some MVPs himself if he can get the Mavs to better records). What separates Jokic is no one expected him to be this good; Doncic was a high pick and heavily hyped whereas Jokic was a late 2nd round pick. I don't think any MVP has been as unheralded as he was when he got into the league. His story is really quite remarkable, but whatever unworthiness he seemed to have in the early years, has long since been obliterated. He lost the award to Embiid last year, but that won't happen again because of Embiid's injury.

[pwaldo]

I don't know if it's the white/European part necessarily, as the league has largely embraced Doncic (who may very well end up with some MVPs himself if he can get the Mavs to better records). What separates Jokic is no one expected him to be this good; Doncic was a high pick and heavily hyped whereas Jokic was a late 2nd round pick. I don't think any MVP has been as unheralded as he was when he got into the league. His story is really quite remarkable, but whatever unworthiness he seemed to have in the early years, has long since been obliterated. He lost the award to Embiid last year, but that won't happen again because of Embiid's injury.

Well Perkins left Joker off his MVP ballot and Stephen A Smith unbelievably left Luka off his NBA 1st 2nd 3rd team voting for guards so I would say there is some animosity towards White European players by some of the press especially since Perkins has been vocal about it. Though I wouldn't have voted Joker as my MVP last year I think the voters ultimately made the right call though I would have differed on the year the Nuggets finished 6th and Joker won it. The voters basically painted themselves into a corner because he is going to put up those numbers every year now and the team is going to be one of the best in the West so it hard to deny him the award after what they did when the team finished 6th.

[WilyWestbrook0]

I wish we had people other than Perk and Smith casting the ballots. Those guys are so over the top. I don't really know what a better solution would be, though. Fans can be pretty stupid, too, so I wouldn't rely on a pure fan vote.

Anyway, regular season is almost over -- Sunday has the final games, with every team in the league playing, as they did last night. A lot of seeding is still on the line, not to mention play-ins. My Thunder and Cavs have both clinched playoff berths, but it remains to be seen whom they will play. I'm still not sold on JBB being a good coach, so the Cavs need to avoid a team like Philly. Their most likely match-up will be Indiana, whom they beat last night. That's a good match-up for them as Indiana sucks defensively, and I think Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley can continue to eat them alive there. They even let Darius Garland beat them from deep in the clutch, and Garland is not known for being a good decision maker or clutch player in pressure. As for OKC, as long as they avoid the big and physical Lakers, I think they can advance to the second round.

[pwaldo]

I wish we had people other than Perk and Smith casting the ballots. Those guys are so over the top. I don't really know what a better solution would be, though. Fans can be pretty stupid, too, so I wouldn't rely on a pure fan vote.

They really aren't that different than the media voters in baseball so for some reason they just all seem to suck at their jobs. I mean seriously unless you took people who were super homers or something you would be able to just randomly pick some fans and they would be better voters. Probably better refs/umpires too.

[WilyWestbrook0]

My Thunder clinched first in the competitive West, youngest team ever to get first seed! Too young for a deep run IMO but it will be fun to see how they fare.

[WilyWestbrook0]

West play-ins were interesting for sure. Great game between the Pels and Lakers. Zion was really impressive, but the injury with 3 minutes to go after he got his 40th point was really unfortunate and probably cost the Pels the game. If he's out the next game, I don't see them getting the final playoff spot.

As for the Warriors...oof! Goose egg for the washed Klay. Totally embarrassed by the Kings, who look like they will get the final spot against a hobbled Zion Pelicans team. I'm actually glad for OKC that the teams with the most playoff championship experience are both out of the way; Lakers will play the Nuggets in the playoffs again like last year leaving OKC with either Pels or Kings, both of whom I think they can beat in six or fewer games.