Card shows

[Travaje]

Yesterday I went to what was supposed to be one of the biggest card shows that take place in Michigan, in Detroit. When I got there, only 10% of the building, if that, was dedicated to cards, and most of them were baseball cards from the 50's to the 80's. Only one guy there sold boxes. It was pretty disapointing, now there's no card shows really to go to.

A couple of months ago I got back into the hobby, and between the fact that there's no shows to take my cards to, cards selling way below the beckett book on ebay, the fact that I've only been able to make one sale (which I got ripped off of, never sent the money), and just in general the way some people conduct themselves on the bay and in forums, it is my conclusion that the hobby is doomed. The only people who are really getting anything out of it is the card companies. As nice as the Leaf certified cards are, for a hundred dollars a box and no guarentees I could get half of that back, there's no way I'm going to buy the box, especially when I could get all the Harringtons I need on Ebay for about the same price (save the emerald and black cards). It's Harrington's second year and there's over 500 cards already of him, many at 3-4 figures book. There's no way I could get a big chunk of them, without paying a fortune. The way our economy is going in our country, I believe the hobby is doomed. I'm just absolutely discouraged and disgusted. Nobody cares about commons and even inserts, and even autos go for just a couple of bucks. What a joke.

After a couple months of buying boxes and just watching my cards sit there, cause I refuse to put them on the bay or on Naxcom's price slash exchange, I think I am done with buying cards. I probally couldn't even get half book for my cards, and they are all really nice. I doubt there's a soul out there making a cent except for the card companies. Good luck to the suckers who pay those outrageous prices and don't get dick back for their cards. Good luck.

[tigersfan12]

well, actually yesterday I got a box there of topps chrome and got a fantastic box return. Also there were 3 people selling boxes there.

[Travaje]

That's not a lot of people! I was expecting something way, way bigger, like half of the building, at least. It was a very small show, and they had less football cards than any of the other shows. I really doubt if I set up a table there I'd get anything at all. The Topps Chrome was $62 I believe? Not much cheaper than the card shop here and I had to drive all the way across the state. Not to mention every highway in Detroit had major construction and back-ups for miles. I've been to way bigger card shows before, but perhaps they no longer exist?

[podstock]

Travaje, I am very encouraged by the lack of interest.

Just means I can buy more Jerry Rice commons for pennies on the dollar.

In fact, Naxcom has a show going on right now in Buena Park, CA.

I'll be heading there (just live 5 miles from there) at 12:30 pm PST, and taping the 49ers game so I can watch it when I get back.

Will be looking to see if I can grab more Rice commons for cheap

[Knight302]

I don't think the hobby is doomed.Some of us are not in it for profit,but for a hobby or because we enjoy the sport or it just gives us something to do with our time.There will always be a collector.What is still alive is the trading aspect of cards.For a collector,book for book will always thrive.The selleing aspect of it is and always has been a rough market,especially for the third party (company,hobby shop,small time dealer).If you are in it for the money,you should realize from the outset that people are looking for the best bang for their buck so if they find a card for $1 verses $5 you better believe they will gobble it up.You will never get full book for your cards unless it is rare and even then someone will try to bargain with you.The only real monies to be made are by the card companies...and they know this.

If you notice the trends in the hobby industry,when items are hot,they sell well but once the market gets a bit saturated,the prices start coming down.That said,a card that booked at $25 while it was hot has "simmered" down to $10 BV...is that really a loss or getting more close to true value of that particular card? So if you wait,you will be able to get much of what you want for just a portion of that small fortune you spoke of.There will be exceptions to this though.

Other trends of note are game used and serial numbering.The market once had game used cards that were demanding premiums.Now those premiums are not paid because of the saturation of the market and have become more affordable.Same goes for autos.Same will happen to the serial numbering.There is and always will be a "gimmick" by the card companies to get you to buy their product. My advice for you would be to wait. Things will come down and you may be able to buy and sell and make a small rpofit but not get rich.If you were looking to make a fortune,you entered the wrong game.If you buy a box,it is like buying a lottery ticket...it's a gamble.

Collect because you want to do it.Don't collect for profit,you will always lose. I collect for the fun of it.I sometimes sell what I don't collect and use what monies I do get from that sale and put it to what I want...not to profit monetarily,but to profit my personal collection.

You knew it was a snake,why did you pick it up? You knew you would get bitten.

-Frank-

[Travaje]

I just don't want to spend a hundred dollars on a box, and get less than low beckett on the cards I don't want. I'm not expecting full book, but maybe half? Does that seem ridicolous?

I love to collect cards and love breaking boxes, but they are all so expensive, and it seems there is no interest in lower-end cards. I know I can get all the cards I want cheap on Ebay, but winning an auction is not as much fun as pulling the card yourself. It's just not a hundred dollars worth of fun.

[tutall]

i dont collect those higher end stuff..who cares what others want i collect what i want... i lose a ton of money everytime i buy boxes but i collect what i want and use collecting as a hobby not a job. i talked to my card dealer a couple days ago and he got into the business is the early 80's... he still has cases of 85-89 topps, fleer, donruss, in his back room... he has taken huge loses on these and has since decided to make it into a hobby... he is open on weekends only and has people hang out.. we all go there and spend a bunch of money and trade but isnt that what a hobby is.. also i dont agree with the lottery ticket statement.... this is nothing like the lottery.... the lottery if you dont win you are left with a little peice of paper... with a card even if it is a .05 cent common it is still a major league player and is in the top ?? percent of athletes in the world... unless you are shawn kemp and had a few too many brews

[bootydaddy]

Don't collect for profit,you will always lose.

This just about says all you need to know. I am in my second phase of collecting, after a long layoff of about 8 years. Now that I am back in, the changes in the hobby really are dramatic, but you still need to remember that this should be fun. I agree that you need to collect who and what you like, not what you think is the best investment (unless its vintage of course). This modern stuff will probably never be worth a ton of money anyway, so just have fun with it.

As for shows, it really depends. In my area, there are good shows and bad shows (and REALLY bad shows). The bigger shows with a lot of tables and wax dealers are usually good fun. I went to one over the weekend, and got some really nice PSA 10 football rookies I have been wanting, for a lot less than SMR prices. Also, GU cards are really cheap in many cases, in fact I got 2 Jerry Rice GU cards with a total BV of $60 for $14 total. But, at the smaller shows, the smaller dealers (who are sometimes just collectors like you and me) are looking to make a bit more back on their investment, so who can blame them. I am learning which shows are worth the weekend time, and which ones aren't.

Wax boxes? Don't get me started. I did pull that 1/1 Jordan Auto a few weeks ago, and that was incredible. But, I have been buying a lot of these $100+ boxes lately, and you are right...how many times do you bust one, and really get very little back on your "investment"? Again, you can't look at it that way, but I agree that card companies owe it to consumers to be a bit more careful when distributing these items. How many boxes of SP will I buy if I am only getting common cards in it? Not many...

[Travaje]

Originally posted by bootydaddy


Wax boxes? Don't get me started. I did pull that 1/1 Jordan Auto a few weeks ago, and that was incredible. But, I have been buying a lot of these $100+ boxes lately, and you are right...how many times do you bust one, and really get very little back on your "investment"? Again, you can't look at it that way, but I agree that card companies owe it to consumers to be a bit more careful when distributing these items. How many boxes of SP will I buy if I am only getting common cards in it? Not many...

In the Topps Total set, a very cheap set, there are cards of major players that are inserts....they are a 1:12 pack pull and the average card is only worth $1.50, just 50 cents more than the price of one pack. One card tops out at 4 bucks. I find that crazy.

If you pull a card that is over 1:10 odds, and you can't even get the price of one pack back in your card....The odds should go down. Way down. That's just nuts.

Let's say you paid a hundred bucks for Certified...if you pulled a card that booked 50, you'd probally think that the card saved your box, and you'd feel better about buying that box. But if the card is only going to sell for 10 bucks (your best card of the box at 10% of the cost of the box), who is going to sell that card?

I don't have a problem if the hobby is focusing more on the trading than on the buying and selling, but in the country's current economy, who can afford to shell out that kind of cash? Harrington's only in his second year and he has over 500 cards. How can you attempt to collect them all at a hundred dollars a box?

[Travaje]

Originally posted by podstock
Travaje, I am very encouraged by the lack of interest.

Just means I can buy more Jerry Rice commons for pennies on the dollar.

In fact, Naxcom has a show going on right now in Buena Park, CA.

I'll be heading there (just live 5 miles from there) at 12:30 pm PST, and taping the 49ers game so I can watch it when I get back.

Will be looking to see if I can grab more Rice commons for cheap

I can see your point, and for those who want to try to get as many cards of their players as they can and keep it in a budget, that's great.

My complaint is how expensive the boxes are then. If you buy a box of certified (90-100 bucks) and your cards might book high but only be worth about $30.00-$50.00, I think 50-70 bucks just for the thrill of busting a box is just way too much money to be charging.