My first political post......

[tylermckinzie]

First of, I will admit this is my first post ever in the politics forum. I read it several times a week, and have developed a knowledge born from my parents who said discussing politics will usually bring out the worst stubborness in anyone. As this election draws closer, I guess I am compelled to make my only post.

I am a teacher for a junior high level self contained classroom, which means I teach all subjects. Social studies is one of my favorites, although during the last month I have been stretched repeatedly by my students to follow my guidelines in discussing the election- this is not a forum to deride others ideas, label others who disagree with you as wrong, or turn comments into personal airing of dirty laundry. I have been shocked at the ideas that parents routinely put into the heads of 11 and 12 year olds. I have had to handle comments of "Obama is a Muslim terrorist" and "McCain is a hothead who left his wife for a plastic trophy". These kids don't come up with these things on their own.

Anyway, my reason for posting is to put out there the one thing I have struggled with during this election process. The republicans have made it a goal to paint Obama as a "socialist". I find this a weak effort to make a huge deal out of a difference in platform. It was McCain himself who was booed at a 2000 Michigan State rally when he told a student who questioned why her father, who went to school for 12 years to be a doctor, was forced to pay higher taxes- wasn't that socialism? McCain responded with, and I am paraphrasing, but the Daily Show had the clip last week, that it is important for those who a better off in society to shoulder a larger portion of helping the country become stronger to help those who are not so well off.

I would have voted for McCain in 2000. However, this election has really made me question what HE truly believes and what the Republican party is pushing for him to accentuate. My vote for Obama will not be without my concerns- I agree that I wish I knew more of his "questionable associations", I wish he was more experienced in the political world, and I hope that he can truly reach across the aisle and integrate great democratic and republican minds alike. I guess I feel he has a greater chance of this than McCain would.... but like I said, that is a gut response, one without a true burden of proof.

Ultimately, I question the ethics of EVERYONE in this discussion EXCEPT Joe Biden. Obviously Obama's are well-known. McCain has had a history of temper issues, involvement in the Keating Five, and some personal life concerns (first-wife, carousing, etc.). Palin has trooper-gate and some Alaskan expenditure issues. I'll flat out say- I don't know how much I trust ANY of them. However, when it boils down to the vote being cast, I have no problem with raising the taxes of some but not others, I think our involvement in Iraq was misguided at best, dead wrong at worst, and I would place my dime on Obama's ability to unite the politicians more than McCain's. I have no problem with anyone voting for McCain if they have real reasons- I am from Arizona, and he has a strong history of being a good politician. I guess that's where I find myself in the minority this year- I don't believe strongly that either candidate is the WRONG choice. Since I can't vote for Obama as president and McCain as VP, I guess I'll go with the one I have a few more things in common with.


McCain's Socialist Fallacy

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10242008...acy_135043.htm

"Debating in Michigan during the 2000 primaries, McCain warned: "There's a growing gap between the haves and have-nots in America, and that gap is growing, and it's unfortunately divided up along ethnic lines."

That same year, McCain said on "Meet the Press": "Many studies have indicated that . . . the people who need . . . the relief most are working middle-income Americans and that's what I want to give to them." In an ad, he promised: "There's one big difference between me and the others - I won't take every last dime of the surplus and spend it on tax cuts that mostly benefit the wealthy." Socialist!

In fact, McCain is such a socialist that he voted against the 2001 Bush tax cuts, complaining that they unfairly favored the rich "at the expense of middle-class Americans who most need tax relief."

[Yanksfan396]

Welcome, Ty! Good to see you in a couple forums now. This was an excellent first post. I never stopped to consider McCain as a socialist.

The truth remains: most people unknowingly practice socialist ideals. I don't think it's a bad thing, either.

[chljoe]

I don't think it is such a bad concept either but some of the conversations I have with my friends, I swear it is 1985 again.

[tylermckinzie]

Don't want my intentions to be misconstrued- I don't see McCain as a socialist. I don't see Obama as one either.

Was McCain's support behind giving the Federal Government a stake in banks and mortgages in a $700 Billion Economic package "socialist"? Was Obama "socialist" for agreeing?

People love to use words that have negative connotations just to let people overreact :-)

[lukehoyt19]

Great first post. Good luck Tuesday voting.

[ensbergcollector]

for me it is a matter of degree. we already have numerous policies in place that are socialistic. If any candidate tried to do away with them, they would be crucified and there would be riots in the streets.

However, Obama is stating that he is willing to go much further with the socialist policies than mccain is. I am not ok with either so I prefer the one who doesn't go as far.

[Bonds_25]

Excellent post, you actually fairly considered both sides unlike several of the posts made on this forum.

[OnePimpTiger]

Great first post, tyler, and welcome to the P&R!

for me it is a matter of degree. we already have numerous policies in place that are socialistic. If any candidate tried to do away with them, they would be crucified and there would be riots in the streets.

However, Obama is stating that he is willing to go much further with the socialist policies than mccain is. I am not ok with either so I prefer the one who doesn't go as far.

I agree with this post 100%. I am all for the better off helping out the worse off, but I think it should be done as charity and not Socialism. The difference is charity is voluntary and Socialism is government mandated. I believe in minimal government that only provides the services that the states and citizens can't feasibly provide for themselves, which is how it was set up in the beginning. We're moving in exactly the opposite direction of that, government taking over in more and more sectors of the citizens' lives. So, like ensberg, I'm for the one who doesn't go as far.

[mufinman009]

Nice.

Obama '08!

[tylermckinzie]

I can understand both ensberg and pimp's viewpoints..... I guess it just depends on how far left you think Obama leans. I feel that if elected he will be a left of center president, not a far left president.......