Official Los Angeles Lakers Thread

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3/21/04 update: Lakers 104-103 over the Bucks in OT in a close game that shouldn't have been

Lakers scored a measly 37 points in the 2nd half, after a great first half that helped them out to a 17-point lead

boy, every time the Lakers had double digit leads, they played lackadaisical, made bad passes, threw up difficult shots, etc.

but, Shaq was a MONSTER tonight, with about 30 points and 25 rebounds and 7 block shots. Lately, Shaq has become a phenomenal force on the defensive end!! Just PHENOMENAL!!

Kobe had about 24 or so points, including a 22-foot game winner over 6'10" Keith van Horn, who had just given the Bucks a 103-102 lead with a three pointer. Kobe replied with the game winning shot with about 25 seconds left, and the Lakers played good defense, and thankfully, Michael Redd missed a three pointer as time ran out.

The Big Four played well in the first half, and so did the reserves..... until the 2nd half rolled around and the Lakers seem disinterested.

Not much to say about this game, which the Lakers should've won by over 20....

UCLA's Dan Gadzuric is playing BETTER in the NBA than he ever did in the NCAA, including a much better, smooth looking foul shot and 7-10 foot shot. Very nice to see UCLA alumni's Matt Barnes and Dan Gadzuric doing well!!!

Since the mid 1980s, I can only recall Reggie Miller of Indiana and Baron Davis of New Orleans (previously Charlotte) Hornets doing well.

Jerome Moiso left UCLA after his 2nd year, got his money after being drafted in 2nd round by Celtics, and did nothing. Not sure what he's doing now

Tyus Edney had a few years as a reserve, but didn't pan out. Edney will forever be remembered by us for that 94-foot dribble drive layup as the clock ran out for a layup that elevated UCLA through Missouri in the NCAA tourney in 1995, one in which we beat Arkansas for the title!!!

Earl Watson is a reserve still playing - I loved this guy!

[minew_m]

An absolutely dominating game for Shaq!!! 26 boards, 7 blocks, and 31 points!!! That is amazing. I was checking his stats out and he actually had better games defensively. He once had 15 blocks in a game and 28 boards.

[skyracer3]

I want to say something bad about Shaq, but I cant. haha.

He had a great game!

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Originally posted by minew_m
An absolutely dominating game for Shaq!!! 26 boards, 7 blocks, and 31 points!!! That is amazing. I was checking his stats out and he actually had better games defensively. He once had 15 blocks in a game and 28 boards.

see, why can't Shaq do this for 50% (41 games) of each season?

Kobe gives it his all, even if sometimes in doing so, he ballhogs.

why can't Shaq give it his all?

even when Shaq was young, he never dominated through the majority of the season

As I've asked before, how can the biggest, baddest center of his generation NOT win even one Defensive Player of the Year Award?

Answer - he doesn't have the desire to do so.

[minew_m]

You can argue the same point for a lot of players. Since Kobe is such a great scorer why can't he do like Jordan and average high twenties to low thirties per game. They all have good games, and they all have bad games. No one player is going to dominate the league anymore. Ming is taller than anybody out there but he can't even dominate (hell he has a hard time getting 8-10 boards a game). There are going to be some exceptions, like Shaq an Kobe, that are better than most of the players in the league, but are still not overwhelmingly dominating.

[skyracer3]

Originally posted by minew_m
You can argue the same point for a lot of players. Since Kobe is such a great scorer why can't he do like Jordan and average high twenties to low thirties per game.

Well thats an easy one. Jordan didnt have Shaq, Malone, and Payton on his team...

[minew_m]

Jordan did have Pippen, Rodman, a big man which is rare in the east in Longly, Kucok and Kerr who are darn good three point shooters. Pippen, Kucok and Kerr all got their shots too. I don't think Jordan took that many more shots than Kobe does now.

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Originally posted by minew_m
You can argue the same point for a lot of players. Since Kobe is such a great scorer why can't he do like Jordan and average high twenties to low thirties per game.

an EASY question to answer:

when you look at the teams that Jordan has had throughout his career - which player was the second scorer?

I would guess Scottie Pippen

On the Lakers, Shaq and Kobe need to share, and that's why Kobe doesn't average high 20s-low 30s

NOW, THE MORE PERTINENT QUESTION IS THIS:

Has Kobe shown that he can score at will?

1. witness last year, when Shaq was missing in action, and Kobe had 8 straight games of 40+ points, something Jordan never did

2. Kobe had 13-15 straight games of 35+ points (amongst that was the 8 straight with 40+), just a few games being Wilt for all-time record

3. Kobe had 56 points against Memphis last year, AND DID NOT PLAY 1 SECOND OF THE 4TH QUARTER....

Jordan scored all those points, and averaged all those points, b/c the Bulls had no other scorer.

You cannot say that the Bulls 1-2 punch of Jordan/Pippen are the equivalent scoring machine that Kobe and Shaq are.

Put Kobe on the hapless Clippers / Hawks and you'll see Kobe averaging 30-35

we all know Kobe can score; he's in a team where he's not required to score 30+ for the team to win.

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Originally posted by minew_m
I don't think Jordan took that many more shots than Kobe does now.

Here are the field goal attempts:

Kobe's first 8 years, including this year -
1996-97 - 422
1997-98 - 391
1998-99 - 779
1999-00 - 1183
2000-01 - 1510
2001-02 - 1597
2002-03 - 1924
2003-04 - 912


Jordan's first 8 years

1984-85 - 1625
1985-86 - 328 (out most of the year with a foot injury)
1986-87 - 2279
1987-88 - 1998
1988-89 - 1795
1989-90 - 1964
1990-91 - 1837
1991-92 - 1818
1992-93 - 2003


to find Kobe stats, go to www. sportsline.com
to find Jordan's stats, here's the link (since he's no longer an active player):
http://www.sportsline.com/u/jordan/2...reer_stats.htm


as you can see from the above stats, Kobe's most attempts were last year (in which Shaq missed almost half the season), with 1924 attempts.

Now look at Jordan: with the exception of 1985-1986, Jordan is around 1800-2000 attempts

Here's a better stat:

Jordan shoots an amazing 49.7% FG
Kobe only shoots 45.5%

But, if Kobe shot as many times as Jordan, he'd be in the high 20s. He wouldn't be in the low 30s b/c of that lower FG %.

all in all, while no one will ever be Jordan, Kobe sure comes damn close

and you cannot bear ill-will with a guy who improves his game every year, the way Kobe did....

he shoots the 3s more consistently
he now banks shots
he shoots left handed shots
and he is deadly at the end of games

and he works out in the offseason

Just like Jordan in his prime, there is NO ONE in NBA you would rather have take the last shot to win games than Kobe and there is NO ONE who's made more clutch plays in the playoffs than Kobe

what other player would YOU pick to take the last shot?

1. T-Mac? --- look what Kobe did to him in the 4th quarter just recently, shutting him to 5 points while scoring 24 points

2. Allen Iverson?

3. Tim Duncan?

The only person I can think of with clutch shooting is Mike Bibby

[minew_m]

Supporting cast is great. Pippen and Jordan could match up with Kobe and Shaq scoring wise:

Actually Pippen did score quite a bit.
92-93 18.6
93-94 22.0
94-95 21.4
95-96 19.4
96-97 20.2
97-98 19.1

Kukoc
94-95 15.7
95-96 13.1
96-97 13.2
97-98 13.3
98-99 18.8
99-00 18.0

Then you add Kerr in the mix:
93-94 8.6
94-95 8.2
95-96 8.4
96-97 8.1
97-98 7.5

Longely:
93-94 7.6
94-95 6.5
95-96 9.1
96-97 9.1
97-98 11.4
98-99 8.7

And about the shots. If you take the averages out in the games that they played, Jordan only takes 2 or 3 shots at mosts per game career wise. Kobe probably wouldn't make all those extra shots anyways so his points per game would only be up maybe a point or two. Nothing where Jordan was.