Official Los Angeles Lakers Thread

[minew_m]

Originally posted by stalking_WOLF_21
he'll do great by him self he had to pass to shaq.

Any now who will he pass to? If there's no big man that means it is going to be easy to put two men on him. They already double Shaq so now they'll just be able to double Kobe too. Whenever Kobe was struggeling, he had Shaq to bail him out.

[podstock]

Originally posted by minew_m
We all saw what Kobe can in the playoffs....which isn't really that impressive.

I also rather Shaq relax in the summer than go messing around with girls. I guess that's what Kobe was doing this summer and look where it landed him. He may not even get the chance to play next year.

Then Shaq and his free throws. I rather him miss those than miss most of the shots he takes. Kobe shot 17% from the 3-point line in the finals and only 24% for the whole playoffs. He also was shooting 38% from the field. I don't know about you, but I'd rather build around Shaq.

whoa!!!

Yes, Kobe stunk up the joint in the Finals this year, in part due to his stubbornness, in part due to his ego, in part due to his stupidity and selfishness.

I don't deny that.

But if you are saying that the 3 titles the Lakers won were with Shaq and his group of merry men, then you perhaps would like to purchase a copy of every playoffs games in 2000, 2001, 2002

I tape them all, and then keep the tapes in which the Lakers win.

Naturally, that meant all the tapes i used for this year will now get deleted.

Kobe is a clutch player in a clutch performance.

yes, Kobe stunk up the joint.

BUT REMEMBER SOMETHING: The Pistons tripled teamed him. And when he passed, the others were shooting 25-35% from the field -- surely you read a post of mine previously that listed the rest of the Lakers and their shooting percentages.

It's one thing to perform badly when guarded one-on-one.

The Pistons got Tayshuan on Kobe, then, 2 other Pistons were right there in case Kobe went past Tayshaun.

Again, I don't deny that Kobe had a horrible Finals.

But these past 2 years, Shaq has regressed while Kobe has progressed - it's that simple.

you konw it, I know it. Kobe knows it. Shaq knows it.

Back in the 1980s, Jerry Buss built the team around Magic and Kareem Abdul Jabbar was smart enough to be the 2nd option

Now, if Shaq was smart, he'd do the same thing.

Shaq's time has come and gone. He will continue to be dominant for 2-3 more years....but the past 4-5 years where Shaq flopped around in the summer (doing a movie, working on his rap music, hanging out) and then coming to training camp overweight, then using the regular season to get in shape ----- all this caught up with him.

Kobe's stayed behind the limelight long enough.

I wouldn't complain at all if Shaq worked out, and had 1/2 the dedication and passion that Kobe did.

But even you, an ardent Shaq supporter, CANNOT tell me that Shaq has the passion and desire of Kobe.

Shaq now is like when Shaq was a rookie -

1. cannot shoot outside of 3-5 feet
2. basically bullies his way to the hoop
3. free throws getting worse and worse.

In the past 4-5 years, you've seen Kobe become a better shooter, a better dribbler, a better assist person, a better defense player (3-time All NBA 1st team defense), etc.

Yes, Kobe has low 3-point shooting %.

but, would you take Steve Kerr and his 48% 3-point shooting over Kobe Bryant????

[minew_m]

Originally posted by podstock

But if you are saying that the 3 titles the Lakers won were with Shaq and his group of merry men, then you perhaps would like to purchase a copy of every playoffs games in 2000, 2001, 2002

BUT REMEMBER SOMETHING: The Pistons tripled teamed him. And when he passed, the others were shooting 25-35% from the field -- surely you read a post of mine previously that listed the rest of the Lakers and their shooting percentages.

but these past 2 years, Shaq has regressed while Kobe has progressed - it's that simple.

Shaq's time has come and gone. He will continue to be dominant for 2-3 more years....but the past 4-5 years where Shaq flopped around in the summer (doing a movie, working on his rap music, hanging out) and then coming to training camp overweight, then using the regular season to get in shape ----- all this caught up with him.

In the past 4-5 years, you've seen Kobe become a better shooter, a better dribbler, a better assist person, a better defense player (3-time All NBA 1st team defense), etc.

First of all, Shaq is doubled and tripled all the time, so why can't Kobe still play when the same happens to him. There are very few players that would not just give up in a situation like that but Shaq goes through it every day.

As for the Finals the years that the Lakers won it.... who was the MVP each and every time. Shaq was. He was more dominant than Kobe was.

As for Shaq regressing for the past 4-5 years, I really don't see that. The only stat that is down is his points per game. That is because he took less that 1,000 shots this year. There were only two other season like that, and he was injured for almost half each of those seasons. His field goal percentage is the highest it's been for 6 years, his rebounding is better than he did the past two seasons, his blocks are the best they have been for the past three seasons. He is also third in the NBA in effiency rating which really puts all the stats together. Shaq also ranks in the top 20 in 21 of the NBA's major categories.

Kobe on the other hand, had a lower field goal percentage since his first two seasons, same goes for his rebounding, his assists are down from the past three seasons, and he ranks in the top 20 in only 11 major categories (effiency is 9th by the way).

You also talked about Shaq going into camp overweight? This year he went into camp in the best condition he has been in for a while. He even hired a personal trainer.

[podstock]

You and I can go back and forth on this Shaq/Kobe topic until we both turn blue.

but the bottom line is:

the Lakers are now focusing on Kobe, and if Shaq looks to leave, then he is welcomed to do so.

Shaq has had his chances to dominate, or in his words, become the Most Dominant Ever

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but, since his rookie year of 1992, Shaq has basically used his God-given 7'2" and 375-lbs to bully his way to the basket.

Kareem Abdul Jabbar not only could lay-up and dunk, but he had a devastating hook-shot, which he used to become the league's all-time scorer

Akeem Olajuwon could not only lay up and dunk, but that Dream Shake move of his carried his team to 2 NBA Titles, including one over Shaq and Penny Hardaway's Orlando Magic, in which Akeem hit shot after shot from 15+ foot.

David Robinson could lay up and dunk, but he has a beautiful 12-15 footer that he could consistently hit.

Patrick Ewing could lay up and dunk, but he also had a fairly consistent outside shot.

HAVE YOU EVER SEEN SHAQ SHOOT A 12-15 FOOTER??

Why is this important? B/c as you age, and get slow, it's much easier for the other team to defend you with their quickness, athleticism. It's no longer as easy to just power your way through.

Why did Shaq not ever improve on his game?

Is there something Shaq has now that Shaq didn't have when he came into the game as a rookie?

You sit there and talk about Kobe's low shooting percentage.

Sure, you've got a point there...but do you watch the Lakers on a regular basis - say 60 out of an 82 game season??

how many times do the Lakers give Kobe the ball with 7 seconds left and he's got to chuck it up?

Sure, Kobe throws up foolish shots, and stubbornly shoots with 3 folks on him......

but, are you saying you'd rather have a Peja Stojakovic and his 50% shooting than Kobe and his 35% shooting?

Ever see Peja in the playoffs - he's been ABSOLUTELY SHUT DOWN

go to www.sacbee.com/sports

go read their archives in the playoffs for the past 5-6 years. THEY DOCUMENT HOW TEAMS HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SHUT DOWN PEJA AND HIS 50% FG SHOOTING AND HIS 90% FREE THROW SHOOTING.

B/t Kobe and whoever you choose in the game as the best FG% shooter (Peja, Dirk Nowitski, etc) who would YOU choose for your team?

More importantly, who do you think the general managers would choose?

[minew_m]

Originally posted by podstock
the Lakers are now focusing on Kobe, and if Shaq looks to leave, then he is welcomed to do so.

Sure, you've got a point there...but do you watch the Lakers on a regular basis - say 60 out of an 82 game season??

B/t Kobe and whoever you choose in the game as the best FG% shooter (Peja, Dirk Nowitski, etc) who would YOU choose for your team?

More importantly, who do you think the general managers would choose?

To answer your questions: If the Lakers are focusing on Kobe so much, why didn't they already resign him? Why are they letting other teams try to pick him up? They knew for a while that he was a free agent after this season and they had a chance to try to work things out with him.

Yes I do watch most of the Laker games every year.

You also talked about the shots with 7 seconds or whatever left on the clock. That's only one shot a game, most games it doesn't even come down to that. That definitely doesn't play a factor into his shooting percentage.

I would choose Dirk. He has size and the ability to shoot all over the court.

As for a player to build around, I think 9 out of 10 teams would choose Shaq. Why is it that before every game, the talk is how are we going to stop Shaq? He is the most dominant and can't be stopped.

[stalking_WOLF_21]

minew_m youre roght on the last comment

[minew_m]

stalking_WOLF_21- Who would you chose?

[podstock]

Originally posted by minew_m
To answer your questions: If the Lakers are focusing on Kobe so much, why didn't they already resign him? Why are they letting other teams try to pick him up? They knew for a while that he was a free agent after this season and they had a chance to try to work things out with him.

Yes I do watch most of the Laker games every year.

I would choose Dirk. He has size and the ability to shoot all over the court.

As for a player to build around, I think 9 out of 10 teams would choose Shaq. Why is it that before every game, the talk is how are we going to stop Shaq? He is the most dominant and can't be stopped.

First, I do not know the logistics as to why they didn't sign him up in the previous years. But, I do know this, if Kobe signs or not, it will be HIS choice. The Lakers and the owner (who pays the bill) said Kobe gets the max $140M

Do you KNOW the reason why they didn't sign him 2-3 years ago? My guess is that you are, by league rules, not allowed to do so.

Second....naturally, I would expect for you to pick anyone but Kobe. Dirk has been a non-factor in the past 3-4 playoffs. He is purely an offensive player. You know it, I know it, Dallas knows it, and everyone who knows basketball knows it.

Only an idiot or a stubborn fool picks Dirk over Kobe.

1. Does Dirk play defense? No
2. Does Kobe play defense? well, other than the fact that Kobe is a 3-time all-NBA 1st team defense, and that the analysts agree that Kobe is the best defensive guard in the last several years, Kobe really isn't much of a defensive player I guess (sarcasm)

2. Does Dirk play offense? Yes, averaging 25.5 points a game
2. Does Kobe play offense? hmmmmmm, average 22+ points, clutch player in the playoffs, 3 titles.......

3. How has Dirk performed in the playoffs as compared to regular season --- well, if you have been watching Dallas play the last 3-4 years, you will see that Dirk's performance in the playoffs is sub par.
3. How has Kobe performed in the playoffs?
-- ask the Spurs in 2000
-- ask the Indiana Pacers in 2000 Finals
-- ask the Kings in 2001, 2002
-- ask the Spurs in 2004
etc. etc.

You see, you can make a case for Shaq (as can I). But there is NO OTHER player (except Tim Duncan) in this league that has accomplish anything close to what Kobe and/or Shaq has accomplished.

Third - yes, I agree. If you build a team, you ALWAYS start at center; because rarely will you get a 7' center with MASSIVE size and strength.

but, Shaq no longer can do what he used to do.

I feel like I am talking to a wall - what is it that newspapers (LA Times, MSNBC.com, Sports Illustrated), media (ESPN, Fox Sports, etc), and others say that Shaq no longer can perform the way he used to.....but you keep muttering that he can?

Are you and I watching the same game? the same player? in the same time frame?

If Shaq were in shape; if Shaq had heart; if Shaq had passion, I'd take 1/2 of Shaq over Kobe any day..........

Do you remember in 2003, when Shaq spent the whole summer doing whatever he wanted, then decided in late August to undergo toe surgery, and used the rest of the season to get in shape? You know what his reply was when asked why he didn't get the surgery right after the season ended?

"...I got hurt on company time; I'll use company time to get surgery and heal..."

This is why the Lakers don't care as much for Shaq any more. He isn't what he used to be, and that's the bottom line.

How can you, I or anyone (except Shaq, his family, and his paid servants) say that Shaq will now have the heart, passion, and desire to come to training camp fit and in shape?

SHAQ HAS DECLARED THAT HIS SUMMERS ARE HIS; AND HE USES THE NBA SEASON TO GET INTO SHAPE

[stalking_WOLF_21]

prob kobe and put him the suns uni and he'll have amare marion J. Johnson.
and maybe mcdyess

[minew_m]

Originally posted by podstock
Do you KNOW the reason why they didn't sign him 2-3 years ago? My guess is that you are, by league rules, not allowed to do so.

Second....naturally, I would expect for you to pick anyone but Kobe. Dirk has been a non-factor in the past 3-4 playoffs. He is purely an offensive player. You know it, I know it, Dallas knows it, and everyone who knows basketball knows it.

Only an idiot or a stubborn fool picks Dirk over Kobe.

1. Does Dirk play defense? No
2. Does Kobe play defense? well, other than the fact that Kobe is a 3-time all-NBA 1st team defense, and that the analysts agree that Kobe is the best defensive guard in the last several years, Kobe really isn't much of a defensive player I guess (sarcasm)

Third - yes, I agree. If you build a team, you ALWAYS start at center; because rarely will you get a 7' center with MASSIVE size and strength.

but, Shaq no longer can do what he used to do.

I feel like I am talking to a wall - what is it that newspapers (LA Times, MSNBC.com, Sports Illustrated), media (ESPN, Fox Sports, etc), and others say that Shaq no longer can perform the way he used to.....but you keep muttering that he can?

SHAQ HAS DECLARED THAT HIS SUMMERS ARE HIS; AND HE USES THE NBA SEASON TO GET INTO SHAPE

I just read an article on ESPN. Maybe you should read it (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?id=1824721). You question Shaq's heart and passion for the team. But then you stick up for a guy (Kobe) who just last year was constantly late for practice and team meetings. Seems like a real team player to me!

And you wanna talk about summers? Kobe put his career in jeopardy with what he did in Colorado. But I guess you'll tell me next that it was for the good of the team!

Also you talked about articles saying Shaq can't play anymore? I'd like to see that.

All the analysts don't agree that Kobe is the best defender out there. If you watched many of the pre-game shows in the finals they were actually questioning Kobe's defense. He just lets defenders blow by him and expects his teamates to do the rest of the work.

The reason I picked Dirk over Kobe is because Dirk gives a damn about his teammates. He knows when he's off and doesn't keep on tossing shots. He gets his teammates involved. And actually he does play defense. He gets more boards than Kobe, is a factor blocking shots and can steal the ball. He is a complete player with a head on his shoulders!