Is BGS really better than PSA or SGC?

[Covet]

In my opinion, SGC is the fairest, best-value, and most respected grading company out there. PSA was good back a few years ago, and BGS is OK, but SGC is A+.
They also have a better scale, and give out less gem mnts +, because realistically, there is no such thing as a pristine card.

I have to agree.

PSA, who was once king of the graded cards, has gone bad.

BGS is just a conflict of interest. It's for kids who want to use the same grading multiplier on their just-pulled-out-of-the-pack-spanking-brand-new cards as if they were 100 year-old-survived-two-world-wars-a-depression-and-bicycle-spokes vintage cards of the same grade.

SGC may specialize in vintage cards, but they also do a better grading job than PSA or BGS.

If you don't like any of the above, I suggest GAI. I like their slab tag - very professional. And the president of GAI was the founder of PSA before it went bad, so you know you are definitely getting a professional grading.

[envoy98]

BGS also grades sheet cut cards as long as they are within the required standards. They also give you some room to work with to on the size(I forget the the measurement) They are basically saying, go ahead and cut up some cards and we will grade them for you. That is a load of crap.


Yes, BGS modern sells for more than PSA but PSA sells for a hell of a lot more than BVG vintage.

Summed it up perfectly. I have used PSA and BGS both to the tune of about 400 cards each. GAI I've submitted about 200 cards but they were all at shows and SGC I did about 50.

Here is my 2 cents on the matter as I've spent a lot of time grading, submitting and talking with people on both the PSA and BGS boards and I've spent a fair amount of time with the guys that actually do the grading. A very interesting conversation if you ever get the opportunity.

At any rate, here are my thoughts and observations...

1. For Vintage - you are not going to beat PSA. Period. SGC and GAI both have nicer holders IMO, and they both have a decent following but you cannot argue with the following and the value that PSA cards get. Yes, you'll see a GAI or SGC vintage card garner some big money at auction, that's because they are respected and have credibility. They do not yet hold a candle to PSA though.

2. For Modern - BGS is the king. Some PSA modern cards do very well, but it's pretty consistent that a BGS 9.5 gets more money and more bids than a comparable PSA 10. Is it fair that BGS has the corner on the price guide market? Does their pricing affect the bidding? Which came first...the high value in the price guide which affected what people would bid, or did it really reflect the market value?

3. Best holders goes to GAI and SGC IMO. I think they look the nicest, and to be honest, I actually GAI's the best.

4. They all have their flaws, yes, BGS will grade sheet cut cards (anyone ever seen that BGS 9 OPC Gretzky RC?) Sold for $7,800 and got a 10 for edges. Why anyone would even buy it is beyond me... BGS seems to be more prone to grading "trimmed" cards. However I can tell you for a fact that PSA has and does grade trimmed and doctored cards. I've met people who do it and have STACKS of high grade PSA, BGS graded cards on their tables. Oddly enough, these people are brazen enough to actually tell you what they do if asked properly. I was kind of in the dark on this until I set up at a few of the bigger shows, it's amazing what you learn about the hobby.

I guess I didn't mean to turn this into a Grading Co. Vs. Grading Co. debate but I think the popular opinion for the most part would confirm that if you are sending in a modern card, use BGS, if it's a vintage card, use PSA. There's a reason people spam PSA and BGS in their titles, they are the most popular.
I personally think if SGC got away from the 100 pt scale they'd have a substantial rise in popularity... I can say I've never done a search for
"SGC 96" when looking for a mint card...maybe that's just me.

It is interesting to note though, that the grading standards are NOT the same for each grading company. I would strongly suggest taking a look at the grading standards for BGS, SGC, GAI and PSA. You'll find things such as centering can play a big role in the ability for you to get a certain grade with one company over another. I'll give you an example, a BGS 9 (Centering) requires 55/45 both ways (left-right and top-bottom), however because an 8 allows 60/40 your card could go to 8.5 for centering. PSA doesn't allow this, however their centering on the back of the card is far more lenient on several of the grades. My Jordan rookie for example is 51/49 and 56/44, problem is I'm a 9.5 one direction, but only an 8 or 8.5 the other direction. I determined my corners were probably 8.5, surface was a 9 and edges were an 8. So the highest possible grade I could get would be an 8.5...but with PSA the best I could do would have been an 8... the difference in "book value" on that card is over $400 for a PSA 8 to a BGS 8.5. Guess where my Jordan went. I've gone the complete opposite direction on other cards too. Sometimes it pays to know what their standards are and figure out with whom your card will be best favored.

I know it's a lot of info, hopefully some of it is helpful to you.

Here is a great tutorial if you will on grading.
http://www.seanet.com/~brucemo/card_...es/grading.htm

http://www.brucemo.com/cards/articles/pro_grading.htm --definitely worth the read!

[lemonlime]

i realise i am way late on this conversation however i dont think it is one that is all said and done with. If i get my cards graded at a card show do i get to see them do it? i mean do i ever let my card go out of my sight? that is what i want to know. also, i really enjoyed reading these posts especially the last one, it was very informative. i hope the market doesnt destroy itself though. sounds like the argument is not who is the best but rather the lesser of the evils.

[AGGIEZ]

Thanks for the info. I am still debating on SGC or BGS. There are a few cards that, if I get the grade I want, I will keep. I think I'd much rather keep the SGC high grades because I like their holder much better....

Hmmmmm....

[bjfan82]

BGS sells a hell of a lot better than PSA and BGS IS BY FAR THE MOST RESPECTED GRADING COMPANY...I don't know where people are getting this SGC thing from...I usually won't touch PSA cards unless I can get a really good deal, BGS grades the toughest, but it pays off big time. I always hear pretty good stuff about SGC but I've only had one or two of their graded cards and don't like their grading scale.

I've seen PSA 10 cards on ebay with horrible horrible centering that would probably get a card graded by BGS at a 7 or 8. That discredited them imo.

Just do BGS...they sell better, look better, and are in more demand...especially if you get a Gem Mint 9.5 or the incredibly rare Pristine 10.

I'm just not sure how much each company costs to get graded. PSA used to lead the pack but I think they were very very unfriendly to non-dealers, so regular collectors couldn't submit cards. BGS jumped in and offer a better product that could reach everyone, not just dealers.

Here's how i rank them:
BGS
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PSA
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SGC
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GAI
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others

[envoy98]

bjfan-I'm not sure what you collect or what your personal experiences have been with grading companies, but I can see where your allegience lies.

I'll just make two quick comments on what you posted as I respectfully disagree.

1. (BGS sells a helluva lot better than PSA. )
This is true on one and only one scale, modern. Whether one wants to debate if it's because they believe they grade more strict (they don't) or because Beckett prices the cards they grade, and therefore begs the question...which came first? The grading or the "reporting of the market".

2. SGC is probably more preferred in the pre-war market than PSA. Even PSA die-hards will generally concur with that. There is absolutely no comparison on post-war vintage. PSA sells for more. Period. In the more "Modern Vintage" arena, that is Post 1975, there are some BVG cards commanding good premiums, this is usually limited to star/hof cards and that can primarily be attributed to the low population numbers in BVG/BGS holders of those cards and the fact that BVG finally started a set registry.

I used to be a die hard BGS guy (modern) and my vintage went to PSA. It's always been that way, however if you want to see some dealer love, look no further than BGS. GAI is probably the worst at that, though I love the guys that work there and I love their holder. But they definitely give the friendly dealer bump. No question about it. All the companies have their flaws but I will tell you, without question, that BGS IS NOT the toughest grading company, and in fact may be the most inconsistent of the bunch. BGS grades trimmed cards and that "Incredibly Rare Pristine 10" you so covet is merely a high-sub mint 9, a hotel room and a laser trimmer away. Nevermind the friendly bumps that BGS gives... that BGS 10 84 Fleer Update Clemens that sold for $20k. was a 9.5. I met the guy who owned it in a 9.5...and then in a 10. How'd he do it? He walked over to the BGS booth at a show and said this has 2 10 subgrades and 2 9.5 subgrades, you know those edges are a 10. Guess what... they agreed and this card went from a $2k specimen to a $25k specimen. Oh by the way, the card originally started out in a 9 holder. Guess they're just consistent and tough. BGS investments will eventually be laughed at. The 9.5 and 10's everyone used to be so impressed with have since had their standards laxed and you have already seen a rather steep decrease in pricing on those cards, and once the set registry participants have had their fill the prices will continue to drop. There is no arguing that a similar modern card will sell for prices in the order which you listed...however in pre-war and post-war vintage I would strongly disagree.

[Xanadu]

How does one "laser trim" a card?

[AGGIEZ]

So let me get this straight...

"Pre-war" (pre-1945?) = SGC
"Post-war modern" (1975-1990?) = PSA
"Modern" (1990-present?) = BGS

What about the gap from 1945-1975? I am looking at getting my '49 Leaf Jackie Robinson and '55 Clemente and Killebrew rookies graded. Who would you recommend if I am planning on keeping these cards in my collection?

I am leaning towards SGC because I like their holder but I'm still on the fence...

[envoy98]

Pre-War & Post-War generally refers to WWII. Not Vietnam. :)
However, the cutoff usually seems to reside with 1941 and earlier while others will argue Pre-1950 and Post 1950 as the cutoffs. Up to you really...

I would argue that PSA is definitely the way to go on anything 1951 and later. I don't know how much difference there is in pricing between SGC/PSA/GAI in Pre-1952 cards as thats not what I collect or follow.

If it were me I would send the cards you mentioned to PSA. But if you like the SGC holder, I don't think you'd be leaving much if any money on the table by putting those cards in an SGC holder. The other question is, do you have a PSA membership? If not, you'll need to submit through a dealer or pay the $99 to get a membership. This would get you 6 free gradings anyway.

The reason I labeled the "Post War Modern" is because BVG seems to have little to no presence in cards pre-1975. Modern cards are generally viewed as those cards 1972 and later. So in your scenario, you just left out the "Post War" era.

Hope that helps.