Freedom vs. Equality in the US

[themanishere]

I was thinking about this today, and thought I'd see what ideas or opinions people have concerning what I believe is this country's preference of absolute freedom over equality.

I think this preference for freedom is driven by the history of the ideology of individualism in the US, and particularly so, as it is largely an American phenomenon. It seems this is supplemented by the idea that infringing upon individual responsibility necessarily leads to collective irresponsibility. Thus, the nature of such an ideology appears to imply freedom for the individual is intrinsically in opposition to equality of the collective, and that neither is realistically possible enough under the emphasis of the other.

The focus on absolute individual freedom seems to have given rise to the idea that people would be severely less free under an emphasis on equality, where certain freedoms are "curbed." Now, there are dangers that the state would abuse such restrictions of freedom as to ensure equality. But the dangers of an emphasis on individual freedoms, and the abuse in limiting the utility and functionality of said freedoms by all, should garner at least as much discourse.

Unfortunately, I see no real balance of the two perspectives. I'm still trying to conceptualize why, but I'll probably get rolling once a few replies come in.

I am not trying to say anything about Obama or Bush or whatever - this is more of an abstract query. Nor are the arguments I put forth set in stone - they are merely what I believe right now. This thread is more about discussing apparent ideological imperatives and why they have come to be as such for people. Especially within America and in relation to much of Europe and the opposite emphasis of equality over freedom.

Feel free to express whatever you'd like related to the topic, as I want to tighten and refine my thoughts as well. I hope this doesn't go over people's heads or anything - I wish to dissect why this ideology has become engrained, even taken-for-granted, in our society, and how it has helped or hindered political, social and economic progress through its realization and practice.

[themanishere]

I guess this will just be a pseudo-diary of my thoughts then...

Another thing:

The superficial disconnect between Reps/Dems and Libs/Cons is troubling. People are conditioned to believe that their political mission is to trump the other party or ideology. This causes discussion on freedom and equality, as well as most other issues, to devolve into what the Reps/Dems or Libs/Cons can do better to address the issues, instead of deriving ideas from the problems and not projecting solutions onto them.

It seems that in a sense, many people think the only way to solve things is to go into it from one of these parties or ideologies. Not that these ideologies are bad (parties have become cancers), it is just that they have become so warped for political institutions that their purpose has gone from principles of government to interests of the ruling class. Getting a third party or something isn't going to solve anything - it will simply replace one of the dominant parties, and the cycle will continue.

In a way, many, many people have unconsciously become unfree in political discourse, in the sense that they embody the interests of parties and their ideologies as their own. They stick to them and become highly reactionary and contrarian against the other side. The principle of representation has been slowly eroding before our eyes - people holding onto party politics and ideologies seems to perpetuate a dysfunctional perception of actual political participation, rather than mass control by these institutions.

[gsj68]

you use way to many big words for me to understand
all i can say is that there is no equal,we all be unique,1of1's

[themanishere]

Sorry about that, I guess I get too wordy at times.

Of course people will never be "equal." I think our society functions on the idea that there is similarity through individuality - through being complementary. We all do different, specialized things, and we need other people to do other, specialized things that we can't or don't know how to do. It is a fundamentally functionalist argument.

But one of the things that is separating us under such conditions is the politicization of social life. It seems everything these days has a political undertone. But I think it only does because people are so engrained with political ideology, that everything comes back to it. We can't discuss social concepts like "race" and "culture" without it coming back to politics. Not that there is a lack of a relationship there, but there is nothing intrinsically political about either of those things. What is more, I think the "state" has intentionally merged social issues under the umbrella of power-authority issues, and it trickles down to people holding these ideals in their lives. "Political correctness" has grown out of this...

[dfr52]

As you stated, the idea of freedom is so ingrained in our identity that the state may take no action that limits our freedoms, even if it promotes equality.

I agree that policians become so intertwinded w/ their parties and their related beliefs that better solutions are not found.

You might need to dumb this down a bit as your writing is at the graduate level.

[OnePimpTiger]

I prefer freedom over so-called equality any day...people weren't, aren't, and never will be equal and any attempts at equality are unnatural. Utopia would be great, but human nature will never allow it to happen.

[gatorboymike]

I prefer freedom over so-called equality any day...people weren't, aren't, and never will be equal and any attempts at equality are unnatural. Utopia would be great, but human nature will never allow it to happen.

Thank you, Mr. Galt. You and all the other Merovingians should most definitely head for your city on a hill and let us Morlocks gnash and claw each other to bloody streaks of confetti, as we so rightly deserve.

[OnePimpTiger]

If that city existed, I would already be there.

[themanishere]

I don't like compensating my writing style, but I'll try to "dumb it down" I guess.

I prefer freedom over so-called equality any day...people weren't, aren't, and never will be equal and any attempts at equality are unnatural. Utopia would be great, but human nature will never allow it to happen.

I am not proposing absolute equality here.

I am saying many people seemingly embody the thought that the other extreme of absolute freedom is the ideal. But in their ideals, many forget that our society functions by limiting certain freedoms, and necessarily so. Further, under this ideal, people think any attempt at equality creates a threat to freedom. Which is far from the case.

As I said before, I see our society as made up of equality through difference - we are able to be different and pursue various things. But this is lined with the concept of "the Other" - people become so aware of difference that it becomes a threat to their individuality in their mind. It is a precarious situation where our society functions on people complementing one another - this requires a foundational sense of community, to know and allow that everyone has a different role in society. Some people cannot seem to balance the idea of maintaining a sort of social glue (i.e. given extent of equality) that facilitates a corresponding extent of freedom.

[gatorboymike]

If that city existed, I would already be there.

*coughbridgetonowherecough*