When does it quit being 'luck' and start being 'skill'?

[nadeau01_johnson48]

I'm so sick of always reading about how lucky Jimmie Johnson is. What does this guy have to do to get people to respect him, and realize that he's one of the best drivers in not only this generation, but of all time?

You don't win (presumably) FOUR straight Championships strictly off of luck....yet 90% of NASCAR fans continue to say that Jimmie's nothing but lucky, his crew chief does it all, they're cheaters, etc.

I just don't get it. The guy is two (or three) races away from doing something that Richard Petty, David Pearson, Jeff Gordon, Dale Sr., etc. never did....yet the guy gets trashed by almost every non-Johnson fan.

I get it that people hate him because he wins--I hate the Steelers, Yankees, etc. because they always win, but at least I'll admit when I see a good team...I don't get why JJ gets no respect?

And FYI, I don't care when people bash Jimmie, because you know what they say...jealousy breeds envy, but c'mon people. Give the man the respect he deserves. He's the best of our current generation. 8 seasons, 46 wins, 3 (most likely 4) Championships, and a career WORST points finish of 5th.

You don't finish top-5 in points your first 8 seasons in NASCAR strictly off of luck. You don't win an average of almost 6 races a year strictly off of luck.

People are witnessing history in NASCAR, and 90% of the non-JJ fans couldn't care less.

[skippy]

Well I do have to say Jeremy thast the Johnson/Knaus dual would have to be about atleast 60% Chad. Yes Jimmie is a phenominal driver, the among the best of this generation, but I believe tyhat they are as a team a bunch of cheaters.........BUT, so are every other team out there. Chad just has the unfortunite business of getting caught at it the most. Every team has to find the little things to make a difference.

Think about it though, every driver in their hayday was hated by the fans. You either loved them or hated them. Allison, Waltrip, earnhardt or Gordon, they were all hated at sometime. Take it with pride because this way you know that they are at the top for now.

[nadeau01_johnson48]

No, I get the whole hate thing....it just irritates me when people try to say that Jimmie isn't a good driver and that it's all because they cheat, it's all because of luck, etc. Back when Gordon was dominating no one said that Jeff was only doing as good as he was because of luck, or because he was always cheating. That's the stuff that irritates me. Johnson/Knaus is about to do something never done before, and no one will recognize how good they are. It's always 'they're cheating.' Or, 'they're just lucky.' Or, 'NASCAR wants them to win.' It's ridiculous....back when other guys were dominating the series, I don't recall all the fans saying that they don't have skill and it's all strictly luck/cheating/etc. That's the thing that gets me.

And if they were really cheating more than anyone else, what does NASCAR get out of it by letting Jimmie win more races/championships? If anything it just makes most of the fan base even more irritated....NASCAR doesn't stand to benefit from Johnson running away with race after race, championship after championship.

I just wish people would put away all of their fabricated conspiracy theories and realize that they're witnessing something that they might never see again, and give the guy his due.

[doG sI kcivraH]

I've got good and bad points for this.

I LOATHE Jimmie Johnson! Do I think he's a good driver? Unfortunately, yes. Do I credit him with all the success? No. That goes to Hendrick/Knaus. Jimmie has skills, there is no doubt about that, but put him in, say, the #71 car and he sucks BIG TIME!! Put David Gilliland in the #48 and he may get a win, maybe make the chase. Does he win a cup? Probably not.

As far as this weekend, it's Talladega! Everybody gets lucky at Talladega and Daytona. Those 2 tracks are about 80% luck and 20% skill. Therefore, this weekend Jimmie was nothing but lucky! Even you, Jeremy, have to admit that. If he is 2 spots back on the last lap, it's a different story.

I hate to say it, and I think I''m gonna have to hurl afterwards, but I think you put Shrub in the 48 and he does the same thing.

It is being proven that it is the car more than the driver! Hendrick is just so dominant. With that being said, it proves that Dale Jr. lacks talent. The other 3 Hendrick cars make the chase, their "other" cars (Stewart/Newman) are also in the chase and heck, even Keso wins in a Hendrick by-product.

Jimmie may be the most talented driver in cup right now, but driving for Hendrick has certainly helped that argument.

[race crazy]

I've got good and bad points for this.

I LOATHE Jimmie Johnson! Do I think he's a good driver? Unfortunately, yes. Do I credit him with all the success? No. That goes to Hendrick/Knaus. Jimmie has skills, there is no doubt about that, but put him in, say, the #71 car and he sucks BIG TIME!! Put David Gilliland in the #48 and he may get a win, maybe make the chase. Does he win a cup? Probably not.

As far as this weekend, it's Talladega! Everybody gets lucky at Talladega and Daytona. Those 2 tracks are about 80% luck and 20% skill. Therefore, this weekend Jimmie was nothing but lucky! Even you, Jeremy, have to admit that. If he is 2 spots back on the last lap, it's a different story.

I hate to say it, and I think I''m gonna have to hurl afterwards, but I think you put Shrub in the 48 and he does the same thing.

It is being proven that it is the car more than the driver! Hendrick is just so dominant. With that being said, it proves that Dale Jr. lacks talent. The other 3 Hendrick cars make the chase, their "other" cars (Stewart/Newman) are also in the chase and heck, even Keso wins in a Hendrick by-product.

Jimmie may be the most talented driver in cup right now, but driving for Hendrick has certainly helped that argument.

+1

After Jimmie won at Charlotte, I liked and agreed with what Denny Hamlin said. Jimmie is not that much better than the top 10 or so drivers in the sport. It is his team and their communication and eveyone's commitment to work together that make him successful. There is no doubt hes a top tier driver-top 5 for sure, but everything around him and his success makes people believe that its not him.

If you ever want Jimmie to be labeled as the best driver of all-time, the only way that happens is if he leaves Hendrick and or Knaus and wins a championship for a lesser organization, or he gets 200 wins. Im thinking the later happens before he leaves Hendrick too. Jimmie is the Yankees of Nascar, except more boring and not as controversial LOL.

BTW-this same conversation happened about 1995 through 2000 with some dudes named Jeff Gordon and the Rainbow Warriors and Ray Evernham.

[ajwest92]

Most drivers fall is these three categories:

1. A noticeable love/hate relationship. Notables; Earnhardt (both of them), Jeff Gordon, Stewart. Most fans don't even care about Jimmie either way...he's too vanilla for their tastes.

2. Quiet respect built over a long career. Notables: Mark Martin, Jeff Burton, Bobby Labonte. While he's been in Cup since '02, it isn't long enough yet to get to the level of respect of these guys.

3. Young attractive drivers who have a large female fan base. Examples: Kasey Kahne, Denny Hamlin, Brian Vickers. While JJ has his female fans (like my wife), I don't see too many women wearing 48 stuff...again, except my wife.

If this was any other driver other than Jimmie, maybe I would give a care; but it's not, so I don't.

Just my two cents...

Alex