Question About Paying For Autographs

[outtahere]

So, I love TTMing, but I guess every time I see a show come around, where there alot of guys who are hard to get or who do not TTM, I just can't get over some of these prices they are charging. The Valley Forge show, $30 and up for Scott Eyre, $70 and up for Cliff Lee? Really? You can't sell that autograph for more than $10-20. Even the promoters of these events, usually sell their extras on eBay for around $10. The same ones that they charge $30 and up for. Is it really the thrill of standing in line and getting to see the celebrity? I mean, I hate standing in line and than getting ignored or maybe even receiving no eye contact from someone that you did admire before you stood in line for an hour to be rubbed the wrong way. What are your thoughts? Do people really drop $100's for these players? Am I just a cheapskate?

[ChrisR]

It's the promoters taking advantage of a niche market. They pay a talent a flat fee and then charge the fans an outragous fee. That's why the Forge show always uses local "favorites" knowing the fans will pay to meet their heroes.

As you said the same 70$ autograph will be listed within 24 hours for a starting bif of 9.99$ and maybe sell for that. I guess it's the thrill of meeting the star.

Another thing about the autograph shows that sours me is the mass influx of that stars signature. Pete Rose for example. The guy has signed so much stuff and continues to do so it amazes me that people will pay his fees. With the sheer volume he has signed I can't see anything being worth even a quarter of his fee.

[druce26]

I look at it as something you have to make a decision on. I collect signed Phils Photos, so if I need a guy, It may be worth it if I can't get him another way. I've got 16 of the 25 guys from the Championship team, and saw someone was doing a private signing with Brett Myers, 22 bucks a pop. I thought that was reasonable, so I emailed the guy. He tells me it's 22 bucks for single signed items, but if it is a team item, the price was 50, as per Brett's agent. He apologized to me in the email, it wasn't his call. That 28 dollar bump made the decision easy for me. Myers is a creep anyway.

[metrotheme]

The modern players have insanely high appearance fees. All of them make at least 400,000 (MLB minimum salary) and they receive over $150 per day per diem, so that's about another 40K per year just in per diem that they get. Most are making over $1 million per year, so why are they going to give up a few hours of their precious off time for a small amount (let's say $1,000) when they command a much higher rate playing ball. If you don't think rest is important to a MLB player in-season, you have another thing coming. They aren't going to give up a few hours of their rest time for small change.

Add into that their agents cut, travel and expenses (if it is the offseason), their fees add up quickly.

The promoter than probably devises a WORST CASE formula to break even. The price you are paying is usually that. So let's say they assume worst case, they sell 75 tickets of player X. They're going to create a price that will cover them if they hit their worst case number. They also have to gauge somehow what price will drive away customers. If they set it too high, very few will buy the ticket. If they set it too low, they run the risk of not being able to make their money back. Sometimes the athletes have a minimum price set into their contracts.

I was with a ballplayer who did a show for one of the major east coast companies. They paid him $500 plus travel and expenses for an overnight trip, 2 hours at the show and then they had him sign an incredible amount of autographs in the backroom, some for mail-ins, a ton for their stock. He complained his hand hurt so much from signing, as he wasn't used to signing that kind of quantity in such a short period of time. I'm assuming with the flight and hotel, it probably cost the promoter $800 or so to bring in the player. They were charging $20 per autograph at the show and at the show I think he sold like 70-80 ticket, so right there before the mail order, they already doubled their investment. Add in the mail order and they probably tripled it.

If you think about it, that $20 price also includes all the advertising the promoter spent, the venue rental, the staff salaries, etc etc.

A poor turnout at a show can put a promoter in the red QUICKLY. And the amount of people out there showing up at shows are down so much when I was going somewhat frequently (mid 1990's). Why? Guys got all the HOF'ers they needed when the prices were reasonable and they weren't really charging for inscriptions.

As much as I'd like to add to my HOF collection, I'm not doing it at prices like $60, $80, $100 per item and that's before the HOF inscription. I'll take my chances with IP events and some TTM if the fee is reasonable (under $20).

People will pay those prices though if they have a multi-signed piece that they can't put in the mail and I think that is what the promoters bank on. Established collectors aren't going to shows to get guys that have been in the HOF over a decade on a baseball or plaque, because they got those guys when they were cheap. Guys like Feller, Kiner, Irvin, Perry, Fingers, Marichal, Palmer even Berra, Musial, Mays, McCovey have made the rounds so much that their autograph isn't rare.

The promoters never took a stand when they had the chance. Players upped their fees and instead of promoters across the board saying no, someone said yes and the bar was raised. That is how we get Willie Mays at $300 instead of $30 in 1995.

The promoters bank on the OCD of collectors to force themselves to come out of pocket because they "NEED" these guys on another project their working on.

[outtahere]

Yeah, I guess I am just old fashion. If you are making even $400K a year, I just wish I knew that my average income that I was sending you was actually going towards a charity of some sort. Average person makes like $40K, so that's 10% of what a bench warmer is making. I can kinda see why old timers are charging a lot more because they probably lost some on inflation. My hats off to guys that actually take their fee and donate it to a charity. Minus the promoters, agents and contracts, at the end of the day if you are making 10-50xs more than the average person it is your responsibility to give some back. And I do not mean stimulating the economy by buying a Land Rover. I really don't feel bad for any promoter or current or former player losing money on a show. I feel bad that their is 10% people without jobs and families going hungry.

[C&C Collecting]

As much as I hate to say it but the players don't owe us anything. We, the autograph collectors, are the ones that turned this from hobby to business. The players saw they could make money and they were given it by the promoters and the collectors. Just because a guy receives $400,000 to sit on a bench doesn't mean he has to sign autographs for everyone who requests it. He has no responsibility other than giving 100% on the field. When it is in his contract to sign autographs then, and only then does he have a responsibility to sign for you. Just because he makes more money than the average person doesn't mean squat. The only reason he is able to cash in like that is because he has a great talent and because we, the fans, pay to see him play. We buy the cards, the merchandise, the $9 beers and the $25 hats. We pay the prices at the ticket booth. Sports are a business these days. Hell, they always have been. Now autograph collecting is a business and there is nothing we can do, short of not paying for autographs, that we can do to change that.
Making a certain amount of money, even if it is 100% more than the average person doesn't mean you owe anything to those around you. The only thing you owe is taxes and that it. There is a thing in this country called freedom and that means you have the right and the freedom to choose what you want to do with your time and money. If that means a ballplayer just wants to play ball and go home, then that is their choice. They don't owe you anything.

[outtahere]

Wow, you sound like an agent. I don't mean any player should owe the fans free autographs, but whether your a pro sports player, a real estate investor, oil barren, million dollar play boy, or anyone that is making 10 to 25 times more than what the average person is making, than it is your civic duty to give back to charity, schools, your community, etc. I just think if someone had wanted my autograph and was willing to pay for it, I would put my money making ability to good use, by donating it. But, this is just my opinion.

[C&C Collecting]

How is it your civic duty? That is what taxes are for. Those people don't owe us anything. They owe taxes, that's it. It is nice to hear about people who do give back to their community but it isn't a law or requirement to give back. Most people who make the kind of money that ballplayers make set up their own charity. Look at Derek Jeter. He has made close to $180 million in his career, if not more, in contracts. He has his own charity. Yet, he still has an exclusive deal with Steiner Sports to sell his autograph for astronomical prices. Is he wrong for not using his graphing power to increase money for his charity? No, he isn't.
In this country we have the freedom to choose. When you make that much money you can choose to give your money to whomever you like. Until then, you have the freedom to keep every penny.

[DeadHorse]

Agreed, 203gunner; I like to collect 'TTM' as well and am fairly new to it; I have said from day one, these guys owe me nothing. I am bugging them at their home, at their business, or wherever I contacted them at.....if they choose to not sign, I hold no grudge. If they send me back a request for money, I consider it generous that they even sent back my card I sent unsigned. If they sign for me, I consider them a personal hero for taking the time to acknowledge a fan.
Why do any of us really watch sports? I do not watch it for one particular athlete, I watch it to enjoy the company of fellow fans, and for the opportunity to spend times with loved ones and for a chance to talk about the game at the office. That is why I spend the outrageous money on merchandise, not to give myself a feeling that anyone owes me something.
Just my 2 cents.
Merry Christmas.

[indyreds]

Guys the players may not owe us fans anything! The thing is where would they be without fans? How much would they make playing a game if we did not attend or watch? I can always understand when a player does not sign, but the fact remains that the fans are truely who pays their salaries! We buy the seats at the stadiums that out taxes paid for. We buy the Suday Ticket programing on TV! We buy the ballcards, autographed gear and jerseys! We are the revenue source that pays for those nice cars, big homes and the bling! Fans should be polite and respect these players when we interact, but players need to be polite to fans as well. Those who nicely say not today or maybe later to a fan asking for an autograph are heard understood and respected. The players who just ignore requests seem very rude to me! I do not think they OWE us autographs at all, but should remember where their pay is coming from! Show fees are way too crazy most of the time. They do give you a guarentee to get that autograph and for some items it might be the best route! I agree that IP or at a show is the only way that a few of my items would get more signatures added. I for instance had gotten B J Upton finally on the same ball that I had his brother sign. I did it IP, but would have paid a show fee as I have a few family items in my collection. I have is Bob and Aaron Boone on a ball. I would pay to add Bret Boone to complete it. The question to answer to yourself is the fee to high for you to have them sign what you want signed. Will you pay $50 for a flat to be signed or $100 for a jersey. Personally getting %50 for a signed photo and that is not that odd of a price is too high. There are Jerseys that I would have signed for $100! It had better be someone you really want though as how many can you display? Yes, usually show fees are too high for me!