Question re: eBay Refund

[Statmoe]

Looking for some feedback from the other members please... Not sure if this is the appropriate section to post this (if not - please let me know!)

So I purchased a card tonight off eBay from a member here @ SCF...

Apparently there was a note in the details which indicated that expedited shipping was required if the listing ended over $75 which I hadn't noticed. I made prompt payment and received a note shortly after and was asked to pay the additional $9 (invoice indicated shipping was $3)... I made that payment as well but asked the seller why it wasn't included in the invoice I received in what I thought was a reasonable tone. The seller completely blew up, refunded my payments and refused to ship me the card I had paid promptly for because I questioned the second transaction.

He basically told me that it was people like me who made him want to quit, that he was doing a public service by breaking wax and losing money so ppl like myself could buy cards, that "people talk" and that he "hoped I learned something from this"...

So I figured I'd see what "people" really thought...

I admit that it was probably a stupid question in hindsight but at the time I was legitimately confused about why a second transaction was needed and wasn't expecting to have to pay an additional $10 so I was a bit irritated. I did ask if he was trying to circumvent eBay fees - perhaps that's what pushed him over the edge but it was a legitimate question.

Was I out of line asking that question??? Is it reasonable to refund payment, refuse to complete the transaction and make vague threats about attacking my reputation because I misunderstood why a second transaction was required?

Just want some feedback on whether the other members feel this was appropriate... Thoughts???

If the consensus is that I'm at fault I will definitely issue an apology but at this point I think this was all blown out of proportion.

If you have any questions please let me know as I'm very interested in discussing this further with the community at large!

Thanks for taking the time to read this and looking forward to some input from everyone.

Cheers,
Statmoe

[joshpackham]

Typically the invoice that gets sent out right away only covers the basic shipping, as you've stated the auction called for additional shipping money if it ended over a certain price (be sure you read the entire auction before you bid), this invoice needs to be sent out and perhaps the seller wasn't as quick to send it out as you were to pay and that is where the confusion started. The reason you got the second invoice was just to make up the difference, he could have refunded the first transaction and sent you a second invoice but that's even more time consuming. Hope this helps.

[dmaksymyshyn]

"...in what I thought was a reasonable tone. " All about this statement. What is reasonable to you may not be to him. He over-reacted, but....

[Habitforming]

Sounds like he over reacted a bit, but Ebay and thier fees/policy bs is enough to put a guy on edge to start

[rydlar99]

That's how I do things as well.. 2.99 shipping unless items to be shipped total more than $50.00. Unfortunately there's no other way... I list a card at 69.99 bin obo and will accept $40 sometimes, but if I put $15.00 shipping in the original listing no one will even look at it. Conversely if someone buys two cards at $40 each for a total of $80, I want to put tracking on...

That said, sometimes if someone has very high positive feedback and the total is close to that $50 mark, ie. 50-55, I'll just do regular shipping to help them out.

[max91ess]

i think he acted fine, a little over reacting..

but a lot of people on ebay who try to get away from tracked shipping tend to screw you over.by saying they never got it..

[13stepper]

Man, I hope that wasn't me, sounds like one of my auctions! LOL, I don't think it was though. As an Ebay seller I'm to scared to actually share what I really feel to buyers when they don't read my item descriptions or are right out obvious when they "blackmail" me to get a better deal. That fear of a negative feedback is very real.

Yes the Ebay seller overreacted. But in his defense it can be extremely frustrating for sellers when buyers don't read the terms of their sales. That invoice you received was an automatically generated invoice sent by Ebay. The buyer has every right to cancel the transaction mostly to protect themselves from what I mentioned above, a negative feedback.

Ebay sellers are constantaly walking on needles with the current ebay feedback policies. I will provide an example, had a buyer win 13 of my cards, all low end no tracked shipping required. My shipping rules are $3.00 for the first item and $1 for each additional. It is very clearly typed in 30 font, red, capital bold letters in my item description. Impossible to miss. The buyer won 8 cards on Tuesday, I had more auctions ending on Thursday and he asked if he could hold off payment until those Thursday auctions ended, i replied no problem. Thursday comes, I send an invoice asking for $13 shipping (which i should have rightfully received, those are my terms, if not happy with them don't bid). The buyer sent me an arrogant email stating "you don't expect me to pay $13 for shipping right?" What could I do? The buyer clearly knew what he was doing and that he had all the power in the sale, I had nothing. I laid down without a peep and charged him $5 for shipping, which i lost out on.

That buyer left me shining feeback (which i was most concerned about), i didn't leave any feedback and he is now blocked from my auctions.

All in all I would have to say there's nothing wrong with asking questions, but sometimes even questions will put Ebay sellers on edge.

You could email him and apologize but chances are good that seller has already blocked you. I'm sorry to say but I know I would have.

Looking for some feedback from the other members please... Not sure if this is the appropriate section to post this (if not - please let me know!)

So I purchased a card tonight off eBay from a member here @ SCF...

Apparently there was a note in the details which indicated that expedited shipping was required if the listing ended over $75 which I hadn't noticed. I made prompt payment and received a note shortly after and was asked to pay the additional $9 (invoice indicated shipping was $3)... I made that payment as well but asked the seller why it wasn't included in the invoice I received in what I thought was a reasonable tone. The seller completely blew up, refunded my payments and refused to ship me the card I had paid promptly for because I questioned the second transaction.

He basically told me that it was people like me who made him want to quit, that he was doing a public service by breaking wax and losing money so ppl like myself could buy cards, that "people talk" and that he "hoped I learned something from this"...

So I figured I'd see what "people" really thought...

I admit that it was probably a stupid question in hindsight but at the time I was legitimately confused about why a second transaction was needed and wasn't expecting to have to pay an additional $10 so I was a bit irritated. I did ask if he was trying to circumvent eBay fees - perhaps that's what pushed him over the edge but it was a legitimate question.

Was I out of line asking that question??? Is it reasonable to refund payment, refuse to complete the transaction and make vague threats about attacking my reputation because I misunderstood why a second transaction was required?

Just want some feedback on whether the other members feel this was appropriate... Thoughts???

If the consensus is that I'm at fault I will definitely issue an apology but at this point I think this was all blown out of proportion.

If you have any questions please let me know as I'm very interested in discussing this further with the community at large!

Thanks for taking the time to read this and looking forward to some input from everyone.

Cheers,
Statmoe

[reoddai]

You picked the correct forum to ask about it.

It sounds like its a combination of experienced seller dealing with and a small error on the part of the buyer.

Like you said, you didn't read the listing all that well. It happens even to the best of us. But, if you are dealing with an experience seller who breaks a ton of wax, to them, this is their livelyhood. Its just so OBVIOUS that you should have caught it right? I mean they know everything about their listings and eBay and Paypal, so why don't you? So they get upset that you aren't as infallible as them.

If you want to go through with the transaction, just go back to eBay send the correct payment in one payment. Send an e-mail to the seller explaining what happened (be nice, make it show) and apologetic. Afterall, when you're dealing with someone who gets agravated easily, you have to soothe their ego since they don't know how to keep calm by themselves.

If they still refuse to accept payment, ask them one more time if they are willing to change their mind because you still have to leave feedback on the transaction and you'd be more than happy to leave positive feedback for receiving the cards in a timely manner, but you aren't sure what kind of FB to leave if the seller is simply refusing to work with you and accepting your payment.

Remember, if you don't pay, they can put a non-paying bidder mark against your account. Its not serious, but its not nothing. You need these e-mails to prove your tried to submit payment and that its the seller who's being unreasonable. It will also help your case with eBay so that any FB is not removed since NPB feedback can be removed.

Try the nice generous route first. Bully's like to think they are in control, but a tactical courtesy means you are the one who's really in control.

GL & Cheers,
reoddai

[13stepper]

I agree with a lot of what you said reoddai, sounds like to me you have run into your share of "seller gems" on Ebay. I don't agree with referring to this seller as a bully though. I also don't agree with you to suggest this person go the "threaten negative feedback route" to force the seller to complete the transaction, how is that fair?

You picked the correct forum to ask about it.

It sounds like its a combination of experienced seller dealing with and a small error on the part of the buyer.

Like you said, you didn't read the listing all that well. It happens even to the best of us. But, if you are dealing with an experience seller who breaks a ton of wax, to them, this is their livelyhood. Its just so OBVIOUS that you should have caught it right? I mean they know everything about their listings and eBay and Paypal, so why don't you? So they get upset that you aren't as infallible as them.

If you want to go through with the transaction, just go back to eBay send the correct payment in one payment. Send an e-mail to the seller explaining what happened (be nice, make it show) and apologetic. Afterall, when you're dealing with someone who gets agravated easily, you have to soothe their ego since they don't know how to keep calm by themselves.

If they still refuse to accept payment, ask them one more time if they are willing to change their mind because you still have to leave feedback on the transaction and you'd be more than happy to leave positive feedback for receiving the cards in a timely manner, but you aren't sure what kind of FB to leave if the seller is simply refusing to work with you and accepting your payment.

Remember, if you don't pay, they can put a non-paying bidder mark against your account. Its not serious, but its not nothing. You need these e-mails to prove your tried to submit payment and that its the seller who's being unreasonable. It will also help your case with eBay so that any FB is not removed since NPB feedback can be removed.

Try the nice generous route first. Bully's like to think they are in control, but a tactical courtesy means you are the one who's really in control.

GL & Cheers,
reoddai

[centrehice]

That's how I do things as well.. 2.99 shipping unless items to be shipped total more than $50.00. Unfortunately there's no other way... I list a card at 69.99 bin obo and will accept $40 sometimes, but if I put $15.00 shipping in the original listing no one will even look at it. Conversely if someone buys two cards at $40 each for a total of $80, I want to put tracking on...

That said, sometimes if someone has very high positive feedback and the total is close to that $50 mark, ie. 50-55, I'll just do regular shipping to help them out.

Let me give you some help. I have lived in 6 Provinces in Canada and 7 States in the USA.

1. Americans are entitled to almost $300.00 duty free dollars to start with on anything shipped into the USA. Canadians are charged duty on anything over $15.00

2. An (assumption of value or expense) because a card sells high, or over a specific amount is still an assumption that it has it's value hidden from Letter Carriers and even Customs Officers if you so desire.

Customs people don't have time to look up cards book values.

3. HOCKEY Cards are not stolen by anyone when shipped into the USA. 99% of all Americans really don't give a damn.

So why people think that they have to have costly shipping charges into this country because the perception (is theft) is simply not true, nor within the realm of reality when it pertains to Hockey Cards.