More Thorough Background Check Legislation Fails In the Senate - 54-46

[duane1969]

Logic used by conservatives about guns laws.

>Criminals will NOT obey any gun laws, there's no need for them, it only affects law abiding gun owners.

Ok, using this logic.

>Criminals will NOT obey traffic laws, there's no need for them, it only affects law abiding motorists.

Liberal logic:

Owning a gun automatically makes you a danger to society, so we must outlaw all guns to prevent any more killing.

Using that "logic":

Owning a car makes you a law-breaking driver, we need to outlaw all cars.

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To further expand on the the ridiculousness of your comparison. There isn't a person in this forum who is a licensed driver that hasn't exceeded the speed limit, failed to use a turn signal, failed to come to a complete stop at a stop sign, failed to signal before changing lanes on the interstate, talked/texted on a cell phone while driving, ran a red light, went left of the center line, passed in a no passing zone, driven in the car pool lane when not car pooling, not worn their seat belt...so logically nearly everyone who is driving is a law breaker while behind the wheel. In contrast, several studies show that 97-98% of gun crimes are committed with illegally gotten guns.

Valid argument can now be made that cars should be outlawed before guns as pretty much everyone who drives has broken or will break a law using their car. Nearly none of the legally owned guns will be used by their owner to break a law.

Say bye-bye to your SUV.

[xpucksx]

Liberal logic:

Owning a gun automatically makes you a danger to society, so we must outlaw all guns to prevent any more killing.

Using that "logic":

Owning a car makes you a law-breaking driver, we need to outlaw all cars.

--------------------------------------------

To further expand on the the ridiculousness of your comparison. There isn't a person in this forum who is a licensed driver that hasn't exceeded the speed limit, failed to use a turn signal, failed to come to a complete stop at a stop sign, failed to signal before changing lanes on the interstate, talked/texted on a cell phone while driving, ran a red light, went left of the center line, passed in a no passing zone, driven in the car pool lane when not car pooling, not worn their seat belt...so logically nearly everyone who is driving is a law breaker while behind the wheel. In contrast, several studies show that 97-98% of gun crimes are committed with illegally gotten guns.

Valid argument can now be made that cars should be outlawed before guns as pretty much everyone who drives has broken or will break a law using their car. Nearly none of the legally owned guns will be used by their owner to break a law.

Say bye-bye to your SUV.

while I am not arguing the logic you are using, I will say that cars are NOT ENGINEERED TO KILL THINGS. the fact that they can is a side effect, or non-intended use. Guns only exist to do one thing: make it easier for humans to kill things. I wonder what the statistics are for incidents where someone used a car to purposefully kill someone else. I know it happens, but I doubt it is more than gun use in the same crime motives....just sayin'...

[Wickabee]

Duane, your "liberal logic" ignores reality. You're getting ridiculous.

[tutall]

while I am not arguing the logic you are using, I will say that cars are NOT ENGINEERED TO KILL THINGS. the fact that they can is a side effect, or non-intended use. Guns only exist to do one thing: make it easier for humans to kill things. I wonder what the statistics are for incidents where someone used a car to purposefully kill someone else. I know it happens, but I doubt it is more than gun use in the same crime motives....just sayin'...

What about the fact thy most people don't use guns to kill things? Most people shoot them at a range or collect them. Fewer and fewer people are hunting with them and they really aren't used in war anymore like they used to be. I get your point though but I would just say I am guessing you don't use guns so you are probably scared to try it. I can tell you an AR-15 in a field with about 50 small propane tanks is a great way to blow off some steam after work.

[Wickabee]

What about the fact thy most people don't use guns to kill things? Most people shoot them at a range or collect them. Fewer and fewer people are hunting with them and they really aren't used in war anymore like they used to be. I get your point though but I would just say I am guessing you don't use guns so you are probably scared to try it. I can tell you an AR-15 in a field with about 50 small propane tanks is a great way to blow off some steam after work.

Irony.

[tutall]

Irony.

That was intentional. Basically it comes down to one thing. I want guns to be safe as well and if the government came up with a logical way to keep guns out of criminals hands in for it. The fact is these proposed laws were more grandstanding than anything else and pointless to pass. They were laws that are basically already in place and do not solve a problem.

If you want my opinion I think we need to go after offenders more effectively. If you committ a gun crime you are no longer allowed to own a gun period. If a child uses a gun violently with a parents gun the patent gets the same sentence as the child. It is a requirement to lock up guns when not in use. If you try to buy a gun and get denied because of a felony you will be punished for it. Safety classes are required for everyone who owns a handgun which includes how to maintain, properly shoot, and storage of the firearm. There are a ton of things that can be debated I just don't agree this bill does anything so I think it is pointless to pass something that is worthless and spend time passing something that makes sense.

[Wickabee]

I think you and I are closer on this than we may be willing to admit.

[xpucksx]

What about the fact thy most people don't use guns to kill things?Most people shoot them at a range or collect them. Fewer and fewer people are hunting with them and they really aren't used in war anymore like they used to be. I get your point though but I would just say I am guessing you don't use guns so you are probably scared to try it. I can tell you an AR-15 in a field with about 50 small propane tanks is a great way to blow off some steam after work.

nope...grew up shooting targets...just .22's cause i didn't feel the need to obliterate the target to prove some sort of "manliness". I have shot a 30.06 and a black powder musket. THAT thing was intense. Dad was in the Marines so I had proper training - well, for the 80's - I haven't been since then...lost interest. But one thing I am not is scared - well, i am afraid of heights and spiders and scorpions...I openly and freely admit that - but I am NOT afraid of the unknown and/or imaginary governmental take overs or home invasions. I prefer to play hockey, really fast thrash metal with one of my bands, or ride my bike to blow off steam....

I guess growing up in the city, and in some of the underground cultures I have been in have taught me a lot about how to be vigilant, how to read a situation and assess how to calm it down or diffuse it before it turns violent. Up until about 4 years ago, I was in places with the possibility for volatile situations every weekend due to places my bands would play. I was exposed to many things that are against or below the mainstream, and have learned not to be fearful, but to be curious but aware, educated, and tolerant. Those three things alone have protected me better than any gun would have

[xpucksx]

If you want my opinion I think we need to go after offenders more effectively. If you committ a gun crime you are no longer allowed to own a gun period. If a child uses a gun violently with a parents gun the patent gets the same sentence as the child. It is a requirement to lock up guns when not in use. If you try to buy a gun and get denied because of a felony you will be punished for it. Safety classes are required for everyone who owns a handgun which includes how to maintain, properly shoot, and storage of the firearm. There are a ton of things that can be debated I just don't agree this bill does anything so I think it is pointless to pass something that is worthless and spend time passing something that makes sense.

I agree with this for ALL facets of law breaking, not just ones involving guns. Part of the problem in our society is that we don't make the consequences for an action real. People have no fear of committing crimes because the punishment is a joke. We encourage "gateway" evolution for crime. Criminals know tha tthe ycan manipulate the system because the system allows itself to be manipulated. This is a whole other thread in itself and really gets me irked. Probably the closest thign I have to a Conservative viewpoint on anything is the whole Prisoners Rights thing <- biggest oxymoron we have!

[Wickabee]

nope...grew up shooting targets...just .22's cause i didn't feel the need to obliterate the target to prove some sort of "manliness". I have shot a 30.06 and a black powder musket. THAT thing was intense. Dad was in the Marines so I had proper training - well, for the 80's - I haven't been since then...lost interest. But one thing I am not is scared - well, i am afraid of heights and spiders and scorpions...I openly and freely admit that - but I am NOT afraid of the unknown and/or imaginary governmental take overs or home invasions. I prefer to play hockey, really fast thrash metal with one of my bands, or ride my bike to blow off steam....

I guess growing up in the city, and in some of the underground cultures I have been in have taught me a lot about how to be vigilant, how to read a situation and assess how to calm it down or diffuse it before it turns violent. Up until about 4 years ago, I was in places with the possibility for volatile situations every weekend due to places my bands would play. I was exposed to many things that are against or below the mainstream, and have learned not to be fearful, but to be curious but aware, educated, and tolerant. Those three things alone have protected me better than any gun would have

The last two sentences were beautiful.