Where is everyone?

[geschrocks33]

Personally when I use ebay completed listings to gauge a price, I look further than the lowest sold item. I typically try and find the lowest and highest and throw my offer somewhere inbetween, or I gauge my offer off of something similar.

Example:

Grabbed a Clutterbuck 10-11 Dominion Patch /25 - with a really nice 3 color multiple break patch for $6 +shipping, ended up being like $8.50.

Other seller has The Prime /25 (just two color jersey with seam) for BIN/BO $16, so I offer him $8 + shipping, which I thought was reasonable, seller responds says he won't go any lower than $16. Well no offense to that person, but that's just plain dumb. Why Best Offer option if you won't go lower? Pointless

BV is fine to an extent, but real market value is the way I like to go. However you have to pick and choose your battles. I know some people that trade BV for BV so I suck it up and deal with it. If I don't like the BV's, I move on and don't make a the deal.

The values of cards can change instantly, much like say the stock market. If you are going to trade stock, are you going to trade it at a compiled equation from the past 3 months sale listed in a book unchanged for a month, or are you going to trade it at the current market value? That's the best comparison I can give

if you can't pluck completed prices from e-bay you're a heartbeat away from having to use Beckett as your bible again.

The worst thing that happened to this hobby is the ability to look up completed items on ebay. It doesn't seem to matter that there is a range of prices for any item - the buyer will only focus on the lowest sale and claim it's the entire market. each subsequent sale must be at a lower value of the buyer believes they've overpaid. So it becomes a race to the bottom.

I'm on record as saying that ebay should not make the sales data available (at least not for free).
Would do wonders for the hobby

[mooneyes]

Can I get a Sellane or Ovy auto for my Jagr/50?? :)

[30ranfordfan]

The Forumula aspect of Beckett's pricing is the part that's the most disturbing to me. They just price things based on what they think they "should" sell for.

To be fair, their prices are not all that out of whack with eBay sales.... it's just that most people will not read Beckett as it's written. When you see a card that has HI & LO values of $25 & $50.... you should be prepared to buy that card for $25 - $50 (if you want it). I find too many people believe that those prices are "Mint" & "Non-Mint". The LO column is completely ignored, and everyone just says "the BV of my card is $X". It's completely ignoring what that guide is telling you. There is no specific value, there is only a range.

Two cards with the same HI & LO value in Beckett are not necessarily worth the same thing. Using the example from before: If you've got a card that books for $25 / $50, and I've got a card that books for $25 / $50 - If yours regularly sells for $40+, and mine never gets much past that $25 mark.... I'm sorry, but it'd be silly of you to swap cards with me...... sure, I get the whole "help another member out" and that sort of thing (I've done it routinely) and by the time you factor in other costs involved with selling... I don't think I'd get all that bent out of shape over $10 or $15.... but those gaps can grow really quickly.

Like someone else said: Trading a Patch card that books for $15 / $25, and sells for $20, and getting a 90s parallel /10000 that also books for $15 / $25, but sells for $1 (and Beckett hasn't bothered to reflect the fact that all but the rarest cards from the 90s tanked in value 15 years ago) is crazy.


And to just reiterate the point about formulas..... I'm looking for autographs from last year's UD Edmonton Oilers collection. There's a few I need that are not priced in the book, because they are too rare (despite being unnumbered). The three I'm missing that have BVs (Taylor Hall, Chris Pronger, and Curtis Joseph) Please PM me if you want to sell for double the Beckett HI value. I would take multiple copies off your hands at 2x Beckett's price.

It is still fairly easy to get some good trades. As long as you make it clear what you have available and what you want. You won't have too much success if you leave the other member trying to guess what you have available or what you may or may not be willing to trade. Keep it simple and state up front whether you go off of FREEBAY selling prices or if you are a real trader.

LoL .... the "real" trader comment from a loyal beckett cult follower.

I agree with most of what your saying .... state what you have and what you expect to get in return ...

But in my opinion .... the "REAL" traders here understand how the market has become ..... the "REAL" traders here understand how to use a tool that is 100% up to date with current market activities .... and the "REAL" traders here understand how to gauge prices for themselves, and not let the good book dictate what their cards are worth.

The good people at beckett have clearly stopped caring about whats being printed in their magazine for some time now, and shown they use formulas to generate certain prices on cards that reappear year after year.

Anyone that has any sort of understanding about the hobby today deals with cash values for everything above $20.

Exactly. I only use beckett for low end stuff. I'm not trading a patch that only books for $25.00 but sells for $20.00 for a 20 year old parallel that books for $25.00 but only sells for $1.00.

^ and all of the above, disagreement may be the Reason trading is down? or some just took offence to the term REAL lol
Ironically you can do a trade with Piper if memory is right in less than a minute using using BV which is the main point I would guess as no one like to haggle for 3 days!
With cash, ie EBAY, someone always says yeah but your trader, ONE Rookie of player X sold for 1$ ( at 3 am, with misspelling! )
which is an obvious attempt to lowball someone, as is But I can buy one locally for insert stupid low price, which Can't be confirmed, and it turns people off trading in a HUGE way! Well me anyway,
Just m 2 cents

[Kessel_fan_87]

Anyone else feel the forum has been kind of dead as of late especially the high end trading for hockey ?

I got surgery tomorrow, so no activity from me for a couple days. Then watch out as I'll be on my couch surfing SCF, HI and eBay for the next month lol.

[jsokol1626]

LoL .... the "real" trader comment from a loyal beckett cult follower.

I agree with most of what your saying .... state what you have and what you expect to get in return ...

But in my opinion .... the "REAL" traders here understand how the market has become ..... the "REAL" traders here understand how to use a tool that is 100% up to date with current market activities .... and the "REAL" traders here understand how to gauge prices for themselves, and not let the good book dictate what their cards are worth.

The good people at beckett have clearly stopped caring about whats being printed in their magazine for some time now, and shown they use formulas to generate certain prices on cards that reappear year after year.

Anyone that has any sort of understanding about the hobby today deals with cash values for everything above $20.

Beckett has always been a guide, nothing more. And if you use it as such, it can be quite effective. EBAY is a mere sampling of a market and is subject to a whole set of variables that ultimately affect sales price. Honestly, how many people that quote EBAY prices analyze them thoroughly, by taking into account the quality of the listing, the end time, shipping costs, item location and so on? Almost no one does, instead both buyers and sellers are guilty of selectively citing EBAY final sales, traders can be equally guilty. As far as "real traders", they are the people who know how to form good trade partners and don't spend every second worrying about a few dollars one way or another in value. This is a hobby site and it should be fun. "Understand how the market has become"........I clearly do as I'm old enough to have witnessed the days when cardboard began changing into $$$.

[pwaldo]

Yesterday was Mother's Day in the United States so I'm guessing not a lot of people were on. You also have parts of New England that haven't seen green on the ground for months who can finally go outside now so you also have that.

[piper1]

I find tradelist is way easier so I can search by using CTRL F, just my thoughts

The list is easier to maintain as well. There are too many buckets out there that features cards that were in reality traded last year.

[RGM81]

I think part of the problem right now is that there's a bit of a lull in releases. It's been a couple weeks since OPC Platinum and Ice were released, and it's going to be a while yet before we see Premier Collection and Masterpieces.

The post-Expo wallet burnout may also affect people who attended. Only so many dollars to go around, right?

[Mooche]

I really, really, really do not want to get into the Beckett debate, but it's pretty simple:

A card is worth what somebody is willing to pay. Not what a book says.

End of story.

[canucksfan007]

Beckett has always been a guide, nothing more. And if you use it as such, it can be quite effective. EBAY is a mere sampling of a market and is subject to a whole set of variables that ultimately affect sales price. Honestly, how many people that quote EBAY prices analyze them thoroughly, by taking into account the quality of the listing, the end time, shipping costs, item location and so on? Almost no one does, instead both buyers and sellers are guilty of selectively citing EBAY final sales, traders can be equally guilty. As far as "real traders", they are the people who know how to form good trade partners and don't spend every second worrying about a few dollars one way or another in value. This is a hobby site and it should be fun. "Understand how the market has become"........I clearly do as I'm old enough to have witnessed the days when cardboard began changing into $$$.

Ebay is the biggest sampling of the market in 1 location. Period.

Sure there are certain things like shipping / location / end time of auction that greatly effects the high or low sales of an item ..... but thats why we take the average.

Average is very simple. Take away the top number ( as this one if usually inflated ), take away the bottom number ( as this one is usually a seller error as to why it ended so low ) .... and take the average from whats left. It gives the best, most accurate number to base your cards value around.

Some people need to win every trade, you can guarantee they dont have 1 person that is a repeat trader. There are others that do multiple deals with multiple traders. I can honestly say, that other than the few guys I trade with every month in person at the shows, I have not made one of these "good trade partners" in atleast 3 - 5 years. All the people I would consider "good trade partners" was before the Panini era.

Cardboard turned into money the second the internet got its boom. People got conned into what the beckett said, as there was no greater method to determine fair values. A card in the late 90s early 2000s that was /100 was considered rare. Is it more rare than a card /100 today? Of course not. But today I can look everywhere in the world for this card, because of the internet. 15 years ago, there might be 1 card of the /100 in you area ..... and thats what everyone had to fight over. Friendly beckett slaps a 100BV tag on that card, and who had any knowledge to fight it at the time?