Where is everyone?

[jsokol1626]

Ebay is the biggest sampling of the market in 1 location. Period.

Sure there are certain things like shipping / location / end time of auction that greatly effects the high or low sales of an item ..... but thats why we take the average.

Average is very simple. Take away the top number ( as this one if usually inflated ), take away the bottom number ( as this one is usually a seller error as to why it ended so low ) .... and take the average from whats left. It gives the best, most accurate number to base your cards value around.

Some people need to win every trade, you can guarantee they dont have 1 person that is a repeat trader. There are others that do multiple deals with multiple traders. I can honestly say, that other than the few guys I trade with every month in person at the shows, I have not made one of these "good trade partners" in atleast 3 - 5 years. All the people I would consider "good trade partners" was before the Panini era.

Cardboard turned into money the second the internet got its boom. People got conned into what the beckett said, as there was no greater method to determine fair values. A card in the late 90s early 2000s that was /100 was considered rare. Is it more rare than a card /100 today? Of course not. But today I can look everywhere in the world for this card, because of the internet. 15 years ago, there might be 1 card of the /100 in you area ..... and thats what everyone had to fight over. Friendly beckett slaps a 100BV tag on that card, and who had any knowledge to fight it at the time?

I owned a shop and set up at many shows throughout the 90's, no one sold at Beckett prices, it was and still is a guide. I had two situations on this site in the past week where traders abused EBAY pricing to their advantage. Out of frustration and a desire to prove them wrong I bought the card on EBAY yesterday for $2. Trading is definitely down and has been for some time. It has nothing to do with the Expo, Mother's Day or the Internet as it has been trending downward for quite a while. IMO, the art of trading and the comradery that develops is suffering. There is a new mentality and I can't help but feel that the plethora of high $$ products, the influx of more and more sellers and low balling buyers are largely to blame. Just the fact that we are debating how to effectively establish value is troubling to me.

[piper1]

A reminder to all the buy and sell types that are now offering their opinion. This is a thread regarding trading on SCF so please take you FREEBAY issues to the special thread that has been created for you. Cheers.

[Yzerfan]

I owned a shop and set up at many shows throughout the 90's, no one sold at Beckett prices, it was and still is a guide. I had two situations on this site in the past week where traders abused EBAY pricing to their advantage. Out of frustration and a desire to prove them wrong I bought the card on EBAY yesterday for $2. Trading is definitely down and has been for some time. It has nothing to do with the Expo, Mother's Day or the Internet as it has been trending downward for quite a while. IMO, the art of trading and the comradery that develops is suffering. There is a new mentality and I can't help but feel that the plethora of high $$ products, the influx of more and more sellers and low balling buyers are largely to blame. Just the fact that we are debating how to effectively establish value is troubling to me.

You're absolutely right, but it's mostly due to the nature of people when they are on the internet. The internet allows people to hide behind their keyboard so that they don't have to be face to face with the person that they're insulting. It's much easier to low ball somebody or try to rip them off when you're sitting at a keyboard than it is to do it to their face. Couple that with the rampant profit chasing and it becomes less about the hobby and more about winning.

I could be wrong though.

[japhi]

A reminder to all the buy and sell types that are now offering their opinion. This is a thread regarding trading on SCF so please take you FREEBAY issues to the special thread that has been created for you. Cheers.

Whats with all the disdain for folks that buy and sell on Ebay? For most of us it's the platform to trade. We trade our cards for cash and them trade the cash for cards.

Ebay is completely relevant to the question of why is trading so down. It's down because there is a better way to exchange good than there was 15 years ago.

Similarily I bring cash to the store to buy eggs rather than chicken breast to trade. No one barters for much these days, life is too fast paced to spend time trying to work a trade when you can sell for cash and convert to cards with zero interaction with the other party.

[canucksfan007]

Whats with all the disdain for folks that buy and sell on Ebay? For most of us it's the platform to trade. We trade our cards for cash and them trade the cash for cards.

Ebay is completely relevant to the question of why is trading so down. It's down because there is a better way to exchange good than there was 15 years ago.

Similarily I bring cash to the store to buy eggs rather than chicken breast to trade. No one barters for much these days, life is too fast paced to spend time trying to work a trade when you can sell for cash and convert to cards with zero interaction with the other party.

Because he is part of the very low % that still believes beckett is king. One that has not changed his ways and adapted like the majority.

I love how people that trade based on cash values simple state it .... and then there are those stuck in their ways, that need to call names or do anything they can to talk down using ebay as a guide

[japhi]

Ya I don't understand the Ebay hate, IMO it's overall contribution the the hobby has been a huge net positive. I'm 40 and was a kid during the boom and watched the hobby implode. I was collecting when it was a local hobby, and a national phenomenon right through the crash. It's more stable and accessible then ever. Ebay allows me to trade (100) 5 dollar cards for cash and turn it into a mint 57 Bucyk.

[jsokol1626]

Because he is part of the very low % that still believes beckett is king. One that has not changed his ways and adapted like the majority.

I love how people that trade based on cash values simple state it .... and then there are those stuck in their ways, that need to call names or do anything they can to talk down using ebay as a guide

You seem to be the one stuck on the EBAY/Beckett debate. Clearly, Pete (Piper) has achieved more deals here than any of us ever will, so his thoughts on the subject of trading should be welcomed. Common courtesy is one thing that is lacking when attempting trades. Heck, a good majority of the time I can't even get a response to a PM on SCF, and that's before any type of offer has been attempted. How can trades occur w/out dialogue? Communication, discussion, open mindedness and a general willingness to help a fellow hobbyist.......that's how trades are made.
Japhi, EBAY is anything but a trading platform, not even close. Personally, although I do buy and sell on the Bay, I never think of it as "a better way". As I've said I like the interaction of these forums, if anything they have helped keep the hobby strong after so many LCS and shows collapsed. I, for one, enjoy helping fellow collectors.

[jsokol1626]

Ya I don't understand the Ebay hate, IMO it's overall contribution the the hobby has been a huge net positive. I'm 40 and was a kid during the boom and watched the hobby implode. I was collecting when it was a local hobby, and a national phenomenon right through the crash. It's more stable and accessible then ever.Ebay allows me to trade (100) 5 dollar cards for cash and turn it into a mint 57 Bucyk .

No one is denying that EBAY has a place in the hobby, but I do think its role as a means of establishing a value every time someone attempts to trade is ridiculous. Again, "Ebay allows me to trade (100) 5 dollar cards for cash and turn it into a mint 57 Bucyk", is not trading.

[japhi]

Ebay is only "not a trading platform" if you reject cash as a medium
of trade. Should I assume your employer pays you in Wheat?

For the record I'm not anti trading, I just don't see much useful value. And apparently most others don't as well as trading is down but the hobby is healthy.

[mooneyes]

Personally trading is a lot more fun than buying, and part of the fun is the INTERACTION with other HUMANS who share the same not so common Hobby. And well if you want a mint 57 Buick for $500, um ok that is different, and a Steal! Wow on that one!!!?

As far as which to use as a guide, as long as it is Simple, Quick, and Fair, who cares? BV may not be relevant to market, but is all 3 including fair most times so whats the biggy?