The Legacy Of LeBron

[jmintz]

Do you think the era they played in had anything to do with the fact that Wilt and Russell are the only players to ever pull down 50 rebounds in a single game?

Jerad

Unquestionably. I'm not taking anything away from either of those guys, but they both played in an era where the guys they faced that were their size could be counted on one hand...maybe a few fingers on the second.

Put it this way - George Mikan won 7 titles in the NBA/pre-NBA years, several scoring titles, and an MVP. By all accounts, he would be the Cherokee Parks of the NBA today - a very tall, very slow guy. It just happened that when he played he was that much bigger than almost every single player he matched up against.

I'm not saying that Wilt or Russell wouldn't succeed today, because I think that they would. But I don't think there's any chance that they would grab 50 in a game...or 40...or even 30. They certainly wouldn't average 25 in a season, which Wilt basically did for his career.

But, those that say LeBron isn't top five are just a bit nutty. If he played in the 50s or 60s he would have averaged 50 points and 25 rebounds a game. There has NEVER been a guy of his size that can do what he does. You can say Magic was his size but Lebron weighs about 30 pounds more than Magic did...and it's 30 pounds of muscle. He's now won three titles, in the next three years he should crack the top 5 all time in scoring, and will probably win at least one more MVP trophy (and let's be honest, he should have won this year).

I can't reasonably make the argument today that Kobe Bryant deserves to be top 5 in lieu of Lebron. I can give you MJ and Russell (let's be real - NO ONE will ever win 11 titles again). After those two, the remaining three could go a myriad of ways.

[WilyWestbrook0]

I once did a statistical analysis of what Wilt and Russell would average today rebounding-wise by adjusting the field goal percentages and average shots attempted for their eras vs. the averages today, and I believe it came out around 18 rebounds a game for both of them. So they'd be like Drummond, basically - still amazing, but not the kinds of numbers they had then, obviously.

[Rdaveigajr]

Top 5

1. Jordan
2. LeBron
3. Kobe
4. Magic
5. Shaq

I strongly feel Lebron will surpass Jordan in the next 5 years.

[ajcorleone]

Funny how Kareem gets no love and he played against some giants. And NOBODY will pass him in scoring

[ajcorleone]

And if we play what if scenarios if Ray Allen does not hit a magical three is this title even a conversation. As far as the Cleveland aspect yes but Lebron minus that Ray Allen prayer title. SO is th era we played in is it the player not named Lebron who saved a series. Alot of what if?

Do you think the era they played in had anything to do with the fact that Wilt and Russell are the only players to ever pull down 50 rebounds in a single game?

Jerad

[jmintz]

And if we play what if scenarios if Ray Allen does not hit a magical three is this title even a conversation. As far as the Cleveland aspect yes but Lebron minus that Ray Allen prayer title. SO is th era we played in is it the player not named Lebron who saved a series. Alot of what if?

I mean, if you're going to play THAT sort of hypothetical game, what if Portland hadn't taken Bowie instead of Jordan? What if the Celtics hadn't drafted Bird in his junior year since he was planning to stay (back then, NBA teams could draft juniors even if they planned to stay in school and retain their rights) and someone else had? What if it was Durant that became an injury prone mess instead of Oden?

You're not making an apples to apples comparison.

First, take in the fact that in the first year of the NBA, the average player was 6'2" and weighed 189 pounds.

Then there's this - taken from here:



The amount of bigger players (which I'll define as taller than 6'6") has grown exponentially in the years since Wilt and Russell played, especially in the 90s and 00s.

At any rate, my point is LeBron would dominate in any era, and his numbers probably go UP rather than down the earlier you get. Wilt and Russell would probably have still been great players, but statistically they would have declined simply because there would have been bigger players all over the court to swallow up rebounds that both guys just had to lift their arms up to get.

[pwaldo]

At any rate, my point is LeBron would dominate in any era

Yet he can't even dominate this era. I mean he has 3 titles in 12/13 seasons against some of the weakest competition of all time. And that's after getting free agents to join him and the Cavs winning 100 #1 picks. How many times would he make the finals in the east having to face Jordan/Pippen, the bad boy Pistons, and Bird/Celtics year in and year out in the east?

Tim Duncan has won 5 rings against the same basic talent and same basic era as Lebron so if Lebron is dominating what is Timmy doing? And that's basically while running parallel to the 5 titles Kobe has since Duncan entered the league a year after so their careers basically overlapped.

[jmintz]

Yet he can't even dominate this era. I mean he has 3 titles in 12/13 seasons against some of the weakest competition of all time. And that's after getting free agents to join him and the Cavs winning 100 #1 picks. How many times would he make the finals in the east having to face Jordan/Pippen, the bad boy Pistons, and Bird/Celtics year in and year out in the east?

Tim Duncan has won 5 rings against the same basic talent and same basic era as Lebron so if Lebron is dominating what is Timmy doing? And that's basically while running parallel to the 5 titles Kobe has since Duncan entered the league a year after so their careers basically overlapped.

No one is saying Duncan (who is a top-10 all-time player) didn't dominate, but he had David Robinson (HOF) & Tony Parker (HOF), Kawhi (young stud), Manu (a solid role player), and Big Shot Rob (one of the most clutch players of all time) on his team.
Kobe had Shaq (HOF), Pau Gasol (HOF), and others I can't recall.

Lebron won titles when he was with Bosh (borderline HOF, All-Star) and Wade (HOF), and with stars in Love and Kyrie. The team he had in the Finals last year against GS was absolute garbage, and in 2007 when he got Cleveland to the Finals, who was the second best player on the team? Larry Hughes? Eric Snow? A broken-down Zydrunas Ilgauskas?

He had a full roster when they played the Mavs and lost, but saying this is "the weakest competition of all time" is just short-sighted and untrue. The skill level of players in the NBA today is as high as it has ever been, but expansion, and moreseo free agency, has diluted it a bit. The bottom teams are as bad as ever, but the top teams can compete with any team in any era.

I'm not a LeBron lover. I respect him. But anyone trying to belittle his achievements or significance is an idiot.

[Rdaveigajr]

Tim duncan, Michael Jordan, Kobe,Bill Russell all had signasfntly better TEAMS than Lebron I think the Warriors team is better than the Cavs.

[pwaldo]

saying this is "the weakest competition of all time" is just short-sighted and untrue

No it is. Outside of the void that the east had when the west pounded them for over a decade before Lebron came along the east is and was super weak this year. It has nothing to do with talent or skill level and more of that there are no teams to challenge anybody outside of the ones in the west. If Lebron James was drafted by the Nuggets instead of the Cavs and he played his whole career in the west would he have more or less titles right about now? It would be way less. He basically gets a free pass to the NBA Finals every year and I'll give him credit for staying healthy and winning in the Finals but off the top of my head I can't think of any eastern conference teams he has beaten that would have been NBA Finals winners. I guess maybe it being so lopsided and stacked in the west would be a more accurate way of putting it.