The Official JAMEIS WINSTON Thread

[Rabs]

Holly do you think Winston will be in Tampa next year at this point?

[Jameis1of1]

Averaging rankings in 11 categories to arrive at an average NFL rank does present a bias towards QBs who accumulate yardage in my opinion. Of the 11 categories presented, 8 of them give weight to yards which skew towards a QB who can throw for long completions.

A guy who goes 1/2/80 and a TD will have high yards per attempt, yards per completion, and likely yards per game vs a guy who goes 10/14/80 with a TD. My conclusion is that it takes little game time to incomplete one pass and to bomb an 80 yard TD vs dinking and dunking down the field on 14 attempts with 10 clock ticking completions. That plays right into Winston's brand of exciting football with long tosses or WRs who can take shorter passes and add on more yards after the catch.

The traditional QB rating attempts to incorporate attempts, completions, yards, TDs, and INTs for a single result.

ESPN's total QBR attempts to measure a QB's contributions to winning by including his impact on the game with passing, rushing, turnovers, and penalties.

Using either the QB Rating or total QBR, Winston ranked either slightly above median in the NFL in 2017 or slightly below. Including other yardage statistics in this calculation provides too much weight to yards and not other metrics. Making the Rating and QBR 2/11 of the total ranking doesn't assign the weighted value I think those two metrics deserve if the goal is to evaluate relative QB effectiveness as compared to their peers.

I do not argue at all his accomplishments in his young career and after decades of looking at the back of football cards, I can see the career trajectory for him to be filled to the brim with big statistics. His big play ability is uncommon in the NFL and is a bright spot to the customary check-downs and bubble screens. I do argue the chart as a portrayal of ranking QBs relative to their peers in 2017.

The above is a good and sensible post and I appreciate it. However, as Jameis bested Cam in 10/11 categories, the chart clearly points to Jameis being far better than Cam was last year and that's the only point I was trying to make to EmmittZone as he made the absurd comment that Jameis will "never" even be "in the same stratosphere" as Cam, which is provably false.

[Jameis1of1]

But you're selling your Winston collection on eBay?

Um, no, the collection has NEVER been offered for sale at any time.

If you read through the eBay ad, you'll see the ONLY cards available to trade for or buy are cards that are NOT part of the "Lucky 13" collection. We have bought, sold and traded probably close to (100) Jameis 1/1 cards but did so to finally end up with the (13) card "Lucky 13" collection and NONE of those 13 cards have ever been offered to anyone for sale or trade.

There are (3) more 1/1 NFL Shield auto'd 1/1 RC's we'd love to add to the collection to turn it into the "Sweet 16" collection, but Black Rose owns one of them and wants an absurd amount, another big-time Jameis collector owns another one and also wants an absurd amount, and the third seems to still be in an unopened pack somewhere as we have offered a generous finder's fee for that one for a long time and have never heard that anyone has pulled it to date.

[Jameis1of1]

Holly do you think Winston will be in Tampa next year at this point?

Honestly, I sort of hope not … I was a little irked Tampa took him #1 overall as I knew the Titans at #2 played in the inferior division and conference and had an organization that seemed to "get it" in comparison to Tampa which was a laughing stock … and I still don't trust the Bucs organization and think a move to a quality organization may benefit Jameis … BUT … all signs point to Jameis being in Tampa through the end of next season at least, and perhaps much longer than that.

Tampa's coach, GM and owners are all reported to believe Jameis is the future in Tampa and there has been talk that some of the brass didn't want Jameis benched at all but that Koetter thought it would be good for him, so they let Koetter make the call.

Tampa already picked up Jameis 2019 option and has said over and over that his contract has no effect on playing time, meaning this isn't an RG3 situation where the team didn'tlet him play because they didn't want to pay him and be on the hook for his salary.

Also, there was a report that the Bucs could have got a 1st and 2nd round pick for Jameis at the trade deadline if they wanted to trade him but that they had no desire to trade him at all … and I do think it's pretty obvious that if the Bucs didn't want to move forward with Jameis next year they would have traded him to the Jags, Giants, Broncos or Dolphins at the deadline … but they didn't.

So, to me, it does seem clear that the Bucs consider Jameis their guy through at least the 2019 season, if not much longer … the ONLY realistic things I could see changing that are:

1.) Jameis and his agent tell the Bucs they don't want to be in Tampa and Tampa therefore agrees to trade him on or before Draft Day … likely to the Jags, Giants, Broncos or Dolphins.

2.) Coach Kotter AND GM Jason Licht are fired and a new coach and GM is hired that would prefer to draft a young QB instead of pay Jameis $21mil … I believe it was ESPN's Schefter that reported though, that even if that happens, the Bucs owners would likely tell the new coach/GM that they are being hired to work with Jameis rather than draft a new guy, so …

Now, personally, I think GM Jason Licht earned his 2019 extension and deserves another year … as for Coach Koetter … there's a good chance he gets fired and I certainly wouldn't complain if they replaced him with a guy like Bruce Arians … I LOVE me some Bruce Arians and Arians loves him some Jameis Winston! However, other coaching candidates that could be a great fit for Tampa are the Harbaugh brothers, Stanford's David Shaw, Oklahoma's Lincoln Riley, etc.

I don't really care what team Jameis plays for … I do think he could put up insane stats with Tampa next season and going forward but I also think they could be like the Brees Saints back when their defense was so bad it canceled out their offense and they couldn't get a winning record for multiple years in a row … so, if Jameis can move to an easy division like the AFC East with the Dolphins or to a quality organization like the Broncos or to a team with a SB quality defense like the Jags or just another team with some offensive weapons and at least a markedly better defense like the Giants, I'd be cool with that.

[Jameis1of1]

OK, let me take a different approach to try and get you to understand my side. First, take a breath and actually read and digest. Secondly, I am not attempting to point out that your statement about Winston having the best numbers at his age is false. I AM NOT ATTEMPTING TO STATE THAT WHAT YOU SAID IS FALSE!!!! Thought I would reiterate that so maybe you would comprehend that point.

If you admit that everything I've stated to date is true, why in the world do you troll and make up statements I never said and then try to refute those made up statements? I don't get it.

What I am pointing out, is your biases for Winston by stating that when you compare him using the chart you originally posted to make a point about how great he is because he has better numbers than those guys (Favre, Rodgers, etc....). The point is, OF COURSE HE DOES!!!! He has played 2 more years than those guys. Why don't you use a chart and compare the great QBs first 3 or 4 years to Winston's 3 or 4 years if you are trying to say how great he is????

Are you kidding me? I have done just that! I posted the "through 45 games" stat which has NOTHING TO DO WITH AGE and compares Jameis' numbers through the EXACT SAME NUMBER OF GAMES as many other QBs.

Again, you're basically admitting that every stat I post is 100% accurate, but that you simply don't like them because they make Jameis look good … my reply to that is, "oh well". I post tons of statistical tables on this thread and many, many more on my Twitter page … all of them are 100% factual and none of them can be refuted.

Also, you still don't seem to understand the point of the one stat chart that seems to drive you crazy … it is NOT to show that Jameis is "better" than any of the other QBs on the chart, but merely that he is on a better statistical pace to set better career records than those QBs, that's all the chart is meant to do, but for some reason when you look at it, it triggers you and you just feel the need to freak out about it … it's silly. You need to understand and perhaps admit in writing that I have NEVER claimed Jameis is the best QB in the NFL or even that he will be the best QB in the NFL at any point … that has NEVER been my claim or even been what I am trying to show with the statistical tables. My point is that Jameis is on the best statistical pace and that he has a great shot of retiring #1 all-time in yards and TDs if he keeps up his current pace, that's all. Simply put, I believe that Hall of Fame careers are mostly about career statistics and not about team wins or team success, and therefore I believe that Jameis will end up in the Hall of Fame even though I would not predict any young QB will win a SuperBowl as they are so incredibly hard to win and if Tarkenton, Fouts, Marino, Kelly and Moon NEVER won a single ring in around 80 years combined in the NFL, it would be silly to seriously claim that any young QB is a shoe-in for a SB ring.

That would be unbiased. WHAT YOU SAID WAS NOT FALSE!!! Thought I would reiterate that again to help it sink in. Comparing stats to someone who has been playing for 2 years more to make a point about how great they are is biased. PERIOD and don't know how else to say it. You can keep stating that I am calling your stats inaccurate or false or whatever other term you want to use, but that is not the case in this instance.

Again, you're only claiming it's biased because you are incorrectly viewing the stat as a proof of greatness rather than merely a proof of statistical accomplishment. You don't like the stat because you think it's meant to convince people Jameis is "better" than Marino, but that's NOT what the stat is for and not what the stat shows … in fact,, I do NOT believe that Jameis is "better" at his age than Marino was at the same age … I don't think any QB that has ever lived was "better" than Marino at any age up to 24 years old … the stat is simply meant to show that Jameis has accumulated the most career passing yards & passing TDs and to therefore show that there is a great chance that when all is said and done he will break statistical records, not that he will one day be the GOAT.

Stats are cool, I like them and I believe that they are what Hall of Fame careers are mostly built on … but they are not absolute proof positive that one player is actually "better" than another player. For example, Jay Cutler has better stats than Otto Graham but Otto Graham is the absolute GOAT in my mind. Eli Manning has better stats than Joe Montana but Joe Montana is far greater. Frank Gore has better stats than a whole bunch of RB's that I believe were far "better" RBs, etc., etc., etc.,.

I have tried to explain the above to you for a long, long, long time … but hopefully this time it all clicks for you and you can accept that stat for what it is, as it's an awesome state, 100% accurate and paints a wonderful picture of both present statistical accomplishment as well as possible future statistical accomplishment, while NOT having anything to do with one QB being "better" than another QB.

Before you dismiss what Newton has done, let us take a look at each of their best seasons so far in the NFL:
Winston: 4,090 yards, 28 TDs, 18 INTs, Rushed for 165 yards, and 1 additional TD
Newton: 3,837 yards, 35 TDs, 10 INTs, Rushed for 636 yards and 10 additional TDs

Really? Talk about biased … you took Cam's one magical MVP season and Jameis' 22 year old season and then compared just the season totals … that's silly.

Firstly, I LOVE Cam, always have … I rooted like crazy for Auburn while he was there and root for him on most Sundays now that he's in the NFL, but the FACT remains that in 7 seasons in the NFL, Cam has only bested Jameis 23 year old season (in which he played half his games with an injured throwing shoulder) passer rating ONE TIME. In fact, Cam has just one 4k season in 7 years while Jameis did it back to back as a 21 and 22 year old.

Your statement about Cam and Jameis was simply untrue and rather laughable … all one has to do is look at their complete stats last season and one will see that Jameis bested Cam in almost every single category and advanced metric, so to say that Jameis will "never" even be "in the same stratosphere" as Cam is just ridiculous. I love Cam, but Jameis was a better pure passer at 19 years of age than Cam has ever been in his entire life. Cam's greatness lies in being the ultimate red zone threat and in using his legs, but as a pure QB, a pure passer, he's below average.

Regardless, your statement that Jameis will NEVER be in the same stratosphere as Cam, Brees, Brady, Rodgers, etc., is simply wrong, as Jameis is already on a greater stratosphere than any of them were at at the same age … heck, at Jameis' current age Drew Brees was garbage and had thrown more career picks than career TDs and Aaron Rodgers was still sitting on a bench … I mean, come on man … it's one thing if you want to "predict" that when all is said and done Jameis won't rank as high on a GOAT list as those other guys, but to say he'll NEVER be in their stratosphere when he's already been better than Cam and has already been better than all the others "at the same age" is just silly … it reminds me of the people who said Kobe would never be in Clyde Drexler's class … people tend to forget legendary players history and rough spots and just reject any comparisons to younger players, but that's silly, as many younger players will pass legends down the line ...

I stand by my previous statement that Newton is a far superior QB and those numbers support it.

Hahahahaha, those numbers support it, eh? Taking Cam's one magical MVP season from 3 years ago and measuring against Jameis' 22 year old season … that settles it, eh? It wouldn't be more sensible to measure their most recent completed season, you know, the 2017 season, and see that Jameis bested Cam in basically every single statistical category and advanced metric even though he played half his games with an injured throwing shoulder? Come on man, that sort of silliness has to be beneath you, right?

Your comment would be as silly as me saying that Todd Hurley will never be in Lev Bell's class and then using his 2nd year, 22 year old stats and measuring them against Lev's best career season stats … just absurd.

His defense didn't put up those numbers that handily beat Winston in every category other than the 250ish yards passing, which over the course of 16 games, is minimal. I won't compute the TD/INT ratio because you should get the picture. But, you know what, those are just stats for one season. When you compare the other seasons, I believe the comparison would perhaps favor Winston a bit more.

Ya think? All you have to do is compare LAST YEAR for both players and you will see that Jameis was infinitely better than Cam, so again, to say Jameis will NEVER even be in Cam's stratosphere is absolutely ludicrous when Jameis was already better as a 23 year old with a jacked up throwing shoulder … HAD YOU SAID, "Jameis will never have a single season as dominant as Cam's one MVP season", I wouldn't have argued with you, but you instead tried to say that Jameis will never be in Cam's league as a QB which is provably false as Jameis has already been better than Cam for a year, just last year in 2017 … heck, many would say Jameis has been better than Cam in 2/3 years he's been in the league, in both 2016 and 2017 ...

Therefore, my comparison is biased because I just compared their best year and didn't take into account their overall statistics.

Correct.

At least that is what I imagine you would come back with and you would be right. A larger sample would tilt the odds a little bit towards Winston. I can admit it when I throw out biased statistics to prove a point. Those stats are factual, but biased and not an accurate comparison to their true ability or accomplishments.

Correct … now you just need to view the stats I post the right way and stop getting upset due to you incorrectly believing they are being used to say something they aren't being used to say ...

For someone that is really hung up on using stats to prove a point, I would think you wouldn't be biased but rather attempt to make a fair comparison.

I do … always.

However you do not because when you use stats for Winston to show his superiority in an unbiased manner, you find out that he really isn't superior. Therefore you just twist the facts. Like stating that I am calling your stats as not accurate when I am not. You really should just quit that, it makes you look...... Won't resort to calling someone silly, stupid, idiot, etc...... I can keep a debate a debate without name calling.

You're simply incorrect … I don't "twist" anything, you simply don't like the 100% factual stats I post, as you believe they are being used to say something they aren't being used to say … that's your issue not mine.

If Winston is a superior QB, then show us an unbiased chart comparing stats that doesn't give Winston a 2 year head start on the people you are comparing him to (Favre, Rodgers, Brees, etc....). Anyways, can't say it any more clearly than that. I've said everything I can possibly say to help you understand that your stats are biased (but factual)!!! If you want to continue to do that, by all means please continue to use biased statistics.

Ugh, you still don't get it … I use tons of statistical charts and tables … the "through 45 games" stat has nothing at all to do with age, the 2017 "all 11 metrics" tables have NOTHING to do with age, etc., etc., … none of my stats or tables are biased in any way, you just don't like them … it is what it is.

Oh....by the way, Emmitt is the best running back to ever play the game. All time rushing yard and TD leader!!!! But, I am biased and can admit it! Good luck as I am unsubscribing from this thread as it is pointless. Thanks.

I'd rank Emmitt behind Jim Brown, Barry Sanders and Marshall Faulk … and maybe behind Walter Payton, LaDanian Tomlinson, Eric Dickerson and Adrian Peterson as well … I would have Emmitt at #8 at worst and #4 at best … and I actually find it fitting you closed with this and that I can say what I just said as it illustrates the exact point I've been trying to help you understand for a long time about the Jameis stats … Jameis is #1 all-time at his age in yards and TDs but I would NOT rank him above Marino at that age … Jameis may retire #1 all-time in yards and TDs in the history of football and still not be any better than #8 all-time or whatever … hopefully after yet another long post from me, you will finally understand what I've been trying to tell you for a long time ...

[jplcom]

The above is a good and sensible post and I appreciate it. However, as Jameis bested Cam in 10/11 categories, the chart clearly points to Jameis being far better than Cam was last year and that's the only point I was trying to make to EmmittZone as he made the absurd comment that Jameis will "never" even be "in the same stratosphere" as Cam, which is provably false.

Exactly, Winston won't ever be in the same stratosphere as Cam. He's going to be in the mesosphere, which is above the stratosphere and clearly better! #science

Oh....by the way, Emmitt is the best running back to ever play the game. All time rushing yard and TD leader!!!! But, I am biased and can admit it!

Off-topic but I can't resist. Emmitt Smith is the most statistically accomplished running back ever to play the game. Not the best ever. His last four seasons he picked up 3,189 yards to surpass Barry Sanders and Walter Payton while averaging 3.66 yards per carry which is subpar. There is no denying his greatness in the record books and his contributions to 3 super bowl winning teams. The best pure rusher was Barry Sanders and the best running/receiving back was LaDainian Tomlinson, a discussion which warrants a whole other thread.

[Jameis1of1]

Exactly, Winston won't ever be in the same stratosphere as Cam. He's going to be in the mesosphere, which is above the stratosphere and clearly better! #science

I like the scientific reference and I definitely think Jameis is a far better pure passer than Cam and that Cam benefits enormously from having a great defense … I still love Cam though and think he has a great chance at ending up in the Hall of Fame due to his running stats … however, it bothers me a great deal that Randall Cunningham isn't in the HOF yet, so who knows.

Off-topic but I can't resist. Emmitt Smith is the most statistically accomplished running back ever to play the game. Not the best ever. His last four seasons he picked up 3,189 yards to surpass Barry Sanders and Walter Payton while averaging 3.66 yards per carry which is subpar. There is no denying his greatness in the record books and his contributions to 3 super bowl winning teams. The best pure rusher was Barry Sanders and the best running/receiving back was LaDainian Tomlinson, a discussion which warrants a whole other thread.

I agree with your statements on Emmitt … he was amazing but he was no Barry Sanders … to me, comparing Emmitt to Barry is like comparing Frank Gore to Adrian Peterson … Gore may have more rushing yards but everyone knows A.D. is the far superior back.

As for the best all-around back … I'd vote for Marshall Faulk with Tomlinson #2 but I love L.T. and rooted for him a great deal when he played … I also think Edge James and even Ricky Waters were great all=purpose backs, as was a guy like Thurman Thomas, but the latter two have been mostly forgotten sadly.

[22emmittzone]

1: I stated that Cam was far superior and provided stats for one year to show how you can use factual statistics to show someone is better, even though they aren't. Do I honestly believe he is? Not really, just did that to prove a point as to what you do.
2: Your said chart didn't list QBs thru their first 45 games each. It listed QBs who reached a certain age. You know the chart is biased towards Winston but can't admit it. I wasn't talking about the thru 45 games chart. I was talking about the chart based on age!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
3: I threw that out last because I knew you would comment on it. Yep, Emmitt isn't the best ever, despite Walter Payton stating as much and despite being the All-Time Leader in rushing yards and TDs. I guess if you say so, then it must be true. Behind Eric Dickerson, AP, and Faulk? Seriously! Now comparing to Walter, LT, Barry, and Jim Brown is a good debate and everybody has their opinion. But again, this thread is about Jameis and not Emmitt.

And lastly, I've said it every way I can and you still don't get it. Nothing more I can do to get you to realize your incorrect comparison. Others have stated the same in accurate comparison and for whatever reason, I am the only one you write a thesis in response. If you don't get it (which you don't), then there is nothing more I can do. GOOD LUCK with your Winston campaign!!!

If you admit that everything I've stated to date is true, why in the world do you troll and make up statements I never said and then try to refute those made up statements? I don't get it.



Are you kidding me? I have done just that! I posted the "through 45 games" stat which has NOTHING TO DO WITH AGE and compares Jameis' numbers through the EXACT SAME NUMBER OF GAMES as many other QBs.

Again, you're basically admitting that every stat I post is 100% accurate, but that you simply don't like them because they make Jameis look good … my reply to that is, "oh well". I post tons of statistical tables on this thread and many, many more on my Twitter page … all of them are 100% factual and none of them can be refuted.

Also, you still don't seem to understand the point of the one stat chart that seems to drive you crazy … it is NOT to show that Jameis is "better" than any of the other QBs on the chart, but merely that he is on a better statistical pace to set better career records than those QBs, that's all the chart is meant to do, but for some reason when you look at it, it triggers you and you just feel the need to freak out about it … it's silly. You need to understand and perhaps admit in writing that I have NEVER claimed Jameis is the best QB in the NFL or even that he will be the best QB in the NFL at any point … that has NEVER been my claim or even been what I am trying to show with the statistical tables. My point is that Jameis is on the best statistical pace and that he has a great shot of retiring #1 all-time in yards and TDs if he keeps up his current pace, that's all. Simply put, I believe that Hall of Fame careers are mostly about career statistics and not about team wins or team success, and therefore I believe that Jameis will end up in the Hall of Fame even though I would not predict any young QB will win a SuperBowl as they are so incredibly hard to win and if Tarkenton, Fouts, Marino, Kelly and Moon NEVER won a single ring in around 80 years combined in the NFL, it would be silly to seriously claim that any young QB is a shoe-in for a SB ring.



Again, you're only claiming it's biased because you are incorrectly viewing the stat as a proof of greatness rather than merely a proof of statistical accomplishment. You don't like the stat because you think it's meant to convince people Jameis is "better" than Marino, but that's NOT what the stat is for and not what the stat shows … in fact,, I do NOT believe that Jameis is "better" at his age than Marino was at the same age … I don't think any QB that has ever lived was "better" than Marino at any age up to 24 years old … the stat is simply meant to show that Jameis has accumulated the most career passing yards & passing TDs and to therefore show that there is a great chance that when all is said and done he will break statistical records, not that he will one day be the GOAT.

Stats are cool, I like them and I believe that they are what Hall of Fame careers are mostly built on … but they are not absolute proof positive that one player is actually "better" than another player. For example, Jay Cutler has better stats than Otto Graham but Otto Graham is the absolute GOAT in my mind. Eli Manning has better stats than Joe Montana but Joe Montana is far greater. Frank Gore has better stats than a whole bunch of RB's that I believe were far "better" RBs, etc., etc., etc.,.

I have tried to explain the above to you for a long, long, long time … but hopefully this time it all clicks for you and you can accept that stat for what it is, as it's an awesome state, 100% accurate and paints a wonderful picture of both present statistical accomplishment as well as possible future statistical accomplishment, while NOT having anything to do with one QB being "better" than another QB.



Really? Talk about biased … you took Cam's one magical MVP season and Jameis' 22 year old season and then compared just the season totals … that's silly.

Firstly, I LOVE Cam, always have … I rooted like crazy for Auburn while he was there and root for him on most Sundays now that he's in the NFL, but the FACT remains that in 7 seasons in the NFL, Cam has only bested Jameis 23 year old season (in which he played half his games with an injured throwing shoulder) passer rating ONE TIME. In fact, Cam has just one 4k season in 7 years while Jameis did it back to back as a 21 and 22 year old.

Your statement about Cam and Jameis was simply untrue and rather laughable … all one has to do is look at their complete stats last season and one will see that Jameis bested Cam in almost every single category and advanced metric, so to say that Jameis will "never" even be "in the same stratosphere" as Cam is just ridiculous. I love Cam, but Jameis was a better pure passer at 19 years of age than Cam has ever been in his entire life. Cam's greatness lies in being the ultimate red zone threat and in using his legs, but as a pure QB, a pure passer, he's below average.

Regardless, your statement that Jameis will NEVER be in the same stratosphere as Cam, Brees, Brady, Rodgers, etc., is simply wrong, as Jameis is already on a greater stratosphere than any of them were at at the same age … heck, at Jameis' current age Drew Brees was garbage and had thrown more career picks than career TDs and Aaron Rodgers was still sitting on a bench … I mean, come on man … it's one thing if you want to "predict" that when all is said and done Jameis won't rank as high on a GOAT list as those other guys, but to say he'll NEVER be in their stratosphere when he's already been better than Cam and has already been better than all the others "at the same age" is just silly … it reminds me of the people who said Kobe would never be in Clyde Drexler's class … people tend to forget legendary players history and rough spots and just reject any comparisons to younger players, but that's silly, as many younger players will pass legends down the line ...



Hahahahaha, those numbers support it, eh? Taking Cam's one magical MVP season from 3 years ago and measuring against Jameis' 22 year old season … that settles it, eh? It wouldn't be more sensible to measure their most recent completed season, you know, the 2017 season, and see that Jameis bested Cam in basically every single statistical category and advanced metric even though he played half his games with an injured throwing shoulder? Come on man, that sort of silliness has to be beneath you, right?

Your comment would be as silly as me saying that Todd Hurley will never be in Lev Bell's class and then using his 2nd year, 22 year old stats and measuring them against Lev's best career season stats … just absurd.



Ya think? All you have to do is compare LAST YEAR for both players and you will see that Jameis was infinitely better than Cam, so again, to say Jameis will NEVER even be in Cam's stratosphere is absolutely ludicrous when Jameis was already better as a 23 year old with a jacked up throwing shoulder … HAD YOU SAID, "Jameis will never have a single season as dominant as Cam's one MVP season", I wouldn't have argued with you, but you instead tried to say that Jameis will never be in Cam's league as a QB which is provably false as Jameis has already been better than Cam for a year, just last year in 2017 … heck, many would say Jameis has been better than Cam in 2/3 years he's been in the league, in both 2016 and 2017 ...



Correct.



Correct … now you just need to view the stats I post the right way and stop getting upset due to you incorrectly believing they are being used to say something they aren't being used to say ...



I do … always.



You're simply incorrect … I don't "twist" anything, you simply don't like the 100% factual stats I post, as you believe they are being used to say something they aren't being used to say … that's your issue not mine.



Ugh, you still don't get it … I use tons of statistical charts and tables … the "through 45 games" stat has nothing at all to do with age, the 2017 "all 11 metrics" tables have NOTHING to do with age, etc., etc., … none of my stats or tables are biased in any way, you just don't like them … it is what it is.



I'd rank Emmitt behind Jim Brown, Barry Sanders and Marshall Faulk … and maybe behind Walter Payton, LaDanian Tomlinson, Eric Dickerson and Adrian Peterson as well … I would have Emmitt at #8 at worst and #4 at best … and I actually find it fitting you closed with this and that I can say what I just said as it illustrates the exact point I've been trying to help you understand for a long time about the Jameis stats … Jameis is #1 all-time at his age in yards and TDs but I would NOT rank him above Marino at that age … Jameis may retire #1 all-time in yards and TDs in the history of football and still not be any better than #8 all-time or whatever … hopefully after yet another long post from me, you will finally understand what I've been trying to tell you for a long time ...

[Jameis1of1]

Ah, 22EmmittZone, in your last post you said you were done and unsubscribing from this thread … but you just can't get enough of reading my words and arguing with me, eh? Ah well … I'll educate you some more below.

1: I stated that Cam was far superior and provided stats for one year to show how you can use factual statistics to show someone is better, even though they aren't. Do I honestly believe he is? Not really, just did that to prove a point as to what you do.

Except that's not at all what I do … I NEVER made the statement that Jameis was better than ANYONE on the statistical chart you have a problem with … NEVER … the chart is 100% accurate as you've already admitted, you just don't like it … oh well, that's your issue not mine.

2: Your said chart didn't list QBs thru their first 45 games each. It listed QBs who reached a certain age. You know the chart is biased towards Winston but can't admit it. I wasn't talking about the thru 45 games chart. I was talking about the chart based on age!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You whined about the chart and said I "should" post stats that aren't age-based, all the while knowing that MANY of my charts have nothing at all to do with age …. if you don't like the age one, stop looking at it, forget it, and for goodness sake, stop whining about it, as it is 100% accurate even if it triggers you … again, that is your issue, not mine …

3: I threw that out last because I knew you would comment on it. Yep, Emmitt isn't the best ever, despite Walter Payton stating as much and despite being the All-Time Leader in rushing yards and TDs. I guess if you say so, then it must be true. Behind Eric Dickerson, AP, and Faulk? Seriously! Now comparing to Walter, LT, Barry, and Jim Brown is a good debate and everybody has their opinion. But again, this thread is about Jameis and not Emmitt.

I'm not sure what the point of the above is … you don't make an actual argument … as for Dickerson/AP/Faulk … I honestly believe both Dickerson and A.P. would EASILY have run for far more yards playing on Emmit's Dallas teams than Emmitt did … they were all-time greats just as he was, with FAR, FAR, FAR SUPERIOR athletic gifts. As for Faulk … I don't think Emmitt could have come close to doing what he did on the Rams teams and had he been on Emmitt's Dallas teams, he may not have rushed for as many yards (maybe …) but I do believe he would have helped Aikman's game and numbers a great deal. All of the guys we're talking about are legends though, so there's no reason to get offended ...

And lastly, I've said it every way I can and you still don't get it. Nothing more I can do to get you to realize your incorrect comparison. Others have stated the same in accurate comparison and for whatever reason, I am the only one you write a thesis in response. If you don't get it (which you don't), then there is nothing more I can do. GOOD LUCK with your Winston campaign!!!

I answer everyone and I write long replies to many … most just know they can't refute anything I say and know they'll look silly if they try to actually prove me wrong on something when everything I state authoritatively is backed up with statistical facts … and anyone that follows this thread can see ALL of my stats are accurate and irrefutable and that you simply have a problem with the ones you don't like because you think they say something they don't say … I get tons of messages on Twitter from people following this thread and the silly trolling just cracks people up …

As for a "Jameis Campaign" … this is fun for me … I have multiple Twitter accounts and have stats on tons of different players and debate on behalf of other players, even in other sports … just NOT using my Jameis1of1 pseudonym … I've always enjoyed writing and as I research, think, and type extremely quickly, it's both fun and easy for me ...

[22emmittzone]

Yep. Everybody, the all knowing one has spoken. Nothing he says is not factual and is completely unbiased. He is never wrong and we shall forever worship your factual statistical greatness.

Let us come back to this thread when Winston actually does something meaningful that you have predicted (i.e. win a Super Bowl, perhaps an MVP, or reaches the HOF). I'll be waiting for your, "I told you so." Later

Ah, 22EmmittZone, in your last post you said you were done and unsubscribing from this thread … but you just can't get enough of reading my words and arguing with me, eh? Ah well … I'll educate you some more below.



Except that's not at all what I do … I NEVER made the statement that Jameis was better than ANYONE on the statistical chart you have a problem with … NEVER … the chart is 100% accurate as you've already admitted, you just don't like it … oh well, that's your issue not mine.



You whined about the chart and said I "should" post stats that aren't age-based, all the while knowing that MANY of my charts have nothing at all to do with age …. if you don't like the age one, stop looking at it, forget it, and for goodness sake, stop whining about it, as it is 100% accurate even if it triggers you … again, that is your issue, not mine …



I'm not sure what the point of the above is … you don't make an actual argument … as for Dickerson/AP/Faulk … I honestly believe both Dickerson and A.P. would EASILY have run for far more yards playing on Emmit's Dallas teams than Emmitt did … they were all-time greats just as he was, with FAR, FAR, FAR SUPERIOR athletic gifts. As for Faulk … I don't think Emmitt could have come close to doing what he did on the Rams teams and had he been on Emmitt's Dallas teams, he may not have rushed for as many yards (maybe …) but I do believe he would have helped Aikman's game and numbers a great deal. All of the guys we're talking about are legends though, so there's no reason to get offended ...



I answer everyone and I write long replies to many … most just know they can't refute anything I say and know they'll look silly if they try to actually prove me wrong on something when everything I state authoritatively is backed up with statistical facts … and anyone that follows this thread can see ALL of my stats are accurate and irrefutable and that you simply have a problem with the ones you don't like because you think they say something they don't say … I get tons of messages on Twitter from people following this thread and the silly trolling just cracks people up …

As for a "Jameis Campaign" … this is fun for me … I have multiple Twitter accounts and have stats on tons of different players and debate on behalf of other players, even in other sports … just NOT using my Jameis1of1 pseudonym … I've always enjoyed writing and as I research, think, and type extremely quickly, it's both fun and easy for me ...