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11-10-2008, 03:49 AM #1
Am I The Only One Who's Scared ?
Whether you voted for Obama or not does any of this stuff really seem like a good idea ?
1 - Increasing taxes on people making over 250k a year (these are the people that actually invest money in new businesses and create new jobs)
2 - Increasing taxes on dividends and capitol gains. (duhhh, anyone selling a house or stocks after 1 year of ownership gets nailed)
3 - Tax "refunds" to people that don't pay any tax. WHAT? How do you give a "refund" to someone that never paid anything ? It's welfare taken to the extreme.
4 - "Path To Ciiztenship" for people that have no respect for our laws and for some reason have been given a pass by our law enforcement agencies. When we send someone to jail for burglary we don't take into consideration how it might affect his family. Why do we consider it when we deport someone ? You broke the law ! The consequences are your fault ! NOT the people enforcing the laws.
5 - One of my favorites............Health care for everyone EXCEPT if you happen to be a baby born to someone that doesn't want you. Nobody has given the exact parameters but basically if a baby is born that requires ANY kind of help to live past the first few minutes it's okay to let it die since it was "only temporarily alive anyway".
I could keep going but is this this really "the change we want" ?
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11-10-2008, 05:23 AM #2
Yeah, I know what you mean.
We need to change a few things, I know that. But those things you mentioned are going to make things worse. America is the land of opportunity. Meaning to me you have the OPPORTUNITY to do great things. Seems to me the way Obama wants it is if you work hard and do great things, then good, but if not then we will just give you more hand-outs so its "fair". Its almost like punishing people for achieving great things. I just dont like it.
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11-10-2008, 08:24 AM #3
I understand your reasons for concern...a buddy of mine did not want to vote for McCain at all, but did so because he just flat out doesn't trust Obama...but he also admitted that McCain/Palin was an awful choice and blames Obama's election entirely on the Bush administration
#1. I do not agree with the idea of raising taxes on anybody, I want taxes slashed across the board...In fact, Ron Paul had the best idea I've ever heard of...completely eliminate the IRS...however, Obama's plan is to let the Bush tax cuts on the 35% bracket simply expire back to 39.6%....Like I said, I don't like this idea, but we're talking about a 4.6% increase on taxable income (after itemizing & such) and only on the amount you earn above the bracket threshold.....not a good idea, but hardly something worth being scared over
#2. I'm thinking he's going to eventually be persuaded that this isn't a good idea, but I'm only speculating....either way, it's the people that don't hold on to securities for at least a year that get nailed...Short Term gains are taxed at your highest marginal rate, while long term gains are taxed at the reduced capital gains rates...also, people can exclude $250,000 ($500,000 for married couples) in gains on your primary residence....That means if you bought a house for $250,000, you'd have to sell it for more than $500,000 before you would pay any capital gains tax....again, just so it's clear, I don't think raising capital gains tax is a good idea, but hardly something worth being scared over
#3. If you work, you pay tax...There are things called payroll taxes, meaning even if you have ZERO tax liability, you still have had at least 7.65% of your wages taxed...and In PA where I live there is also a 3.07% state income tax and a 2.35% local tax...Sales tax is 6% on everything you buy except food & clothing...and lets not forget property/school tax....this concept of people not paying tax is blown WAY out of proportion....However, I believe you are referring to his plan to extend the Earned Income Credit to include more workers....I'm not sure if you understand how that works, but you have to have EARNED income to qualify, meaning you had to have worked, not just simply breathe...also, it mostly benefits workers who have children...The EIC is claimed by over 20 million taxpayers per year, and around 5 million of those are pushed above the poverty lines because of it...Being above the poverty line REDUCES social services provided by state & local governments...Also, the EIC was enacted in 1975 with a Republican president in office, Gerald Ford...so it's not exactly a new idea Obama is bringing with him
#4. I honestly don't know enough about Obama's imigration policy to comment on it
#5. I think Obama's abortion position is also misrepresented badly...Obama has stated that he's pro-choice, but is against late-term abortions unless it is absolutely necessary to save the mother's life. This is the same position I hold, so I guess I'm in agreement with him here. I don't know the details of the vote in Illinois that he gets criticized so much for, but he said in the debates that there was already a law on the books that required doctor's to care for a baby. Here's my take tho...Obama is against late term abortions, so there wouldn't even be that possibility unless the mother was going to die if she didn't have the procedure. Abortion is obviously an emotional issue, but here's my question....Why are republicans against abortion, even in cases of rape or incest like Sarah Palin is, but also against a gay couple adopting unwanted children? I've asked this before, but nobody's answered...To me it seems Republicans want to tell females what they have to do with their bodies as if they care about the unborn child, but then don't care enough if that child spends its life growing up without parents.
There are obviously issues Obama holds that concern me, but it hasn't even been a week since he was elected and people are already scared about what his presidency will bring...give the guy a chance
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11-10-2008, 09:37 AM #4
Re: Immigration Policy....
Both McCain and Obama had carbon-copy immigration plans. Both support building a border fence but both also supported some sort of amnesty or guest-worker program. I don't think you would have seen much difference one way or the other.
But I agree with RED. I'm giving this guy a chance. Like it or not we have him for at least the next few years so at least let's see what he can do.
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11-10-2008, 10:55 AM #5
You forgot to add where he wants to keep companies from going overseas, yet will eliminate tax breaks to corporations. That's the best way to keep companies here, make it more expensive to do business.
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11-10-2008, 12:36 PM #6
Nobody's answered you ? Well, that's just not right. LOL
The reason some people are against abortion, except when the mother's life is in danger, is because their belief is that the baby is a human being which has the same right to life that every other person has and nobody, not even the mother, has the right to kill another person. In the cases of rape and incest the means of conception may be grotesque but the resulting child is innocent and has the same right to live as any other person and as such, again, even the mother has no right to terminate someone's life.
In the case of homosexuals adopting it's mainly because their belief is that the homosexual "lifestyle" is abberant(sp?) behavior and undermines the basic structure of our society. If instead of 95 % of people being hetero and 5% being homo what if it was the other way around ? In less than one generation our civilization as we know it would cease to exist. So to promote that way of life and let them pass on to children the belief that that lifestyle is normal and okay would be crazy.
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11-10-2008, 01:11 PM #7
A few things. I am responding to multiple so I won't try and quote.
Those things worry me a little but no one has commented on what is coming out about the things Obama plans in the early days. I know the man will be president and will have the authority to do things but really?
His own campaign people has said he chose his cheif of staff to be someone that can be a hard nose to push things through while Obama looks all nice and political. He has said he knows democrats have control of congress so he expects to pass numerous things early on and get them pushed through. He has also said he expects to use executive priviledge very early on to circumvent conressional vote and do things without going through congress.
I know bush did that a few times and if you want to know how I felt then, please create another thread. His supporters talk about Obama reaching across the aisle and being a uniting figure and yet he is basically saying he is immediately going to push things through because he knows he can and if he doesn't know if they will pass he will just do it himself. That really sounds like someone trying to unite the country doesn't it.
As for the abortion issue:
Obama has voted for partial-birth abortion so not sure about where he stands now. It is only my opinion but I honestly think he has backed off of that for political expediency. I hope I am wrong.
Also, I would guess (don't have a stat with me) that rape and incest make up probably 1 in 10000 or less abortion cases. Yet those are the cases that abotion rights activists point to in order to convince us that abortion is needed.
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11-10-2008, 01:13 PM #8
yeah bro, i understand the theories...but is that how you feel or are you stating what pro-lifers in general think?
also, the question i asked wasn't really answered...i want to know why it's nobody's right, including the mothers, to terminate a life but then we have the right to tell homos they cant adopt...it seems like a ridiculous double standard...better yet, it seems like a ridiculous religious double standard...what about the babies that would be forced to be born because of rape? They are born into a world in which the father should be spending years in prison and a mother who has nightmares about the conception and was told by the government "tough luck, you're giving birth"....seems like a nice welcome to this world
I know i've seen you type the civilization would cease to exist theory before...unfortunately, it's quite flawed...homosexuality has existed forever, yet the world population continues to grow...also, the idea that growing up in a homosexual environment leads to homosexual behavior has no scientific proof to back that up....and what about the idea that we continue to pass on to our children the belief that homosexuality is not okay...what does that lead to? a bunch of gay bashers?
anyway, got any comments on the tax issues you have with obama that i replied to? or do you still think people are going to get a refund for breathing?
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11-10-2008, 01:32 PM #9
Obama did not vote FOR partial-birth abortion...He voted against a partial-birth abortion ban ONLY because the law did not provide a provision in the rare circumstance it might be necessary because of a mothers health....I don't profess to know exactly what's going on in his mind, but he has stated that he is against these abortions several times...
Also, I don't think people are pointing to rape or incest as the primary reason to keep abortion legal...In fact, the only time I recall these rare cases brought up recently is when I heard Palin is against abortion even in these circumstances....I think it's a pretty cruel world when you tell a woman who's just been raped she has to keep the baby
As far as this Rahm guy goes...I'm glad he chose him...he seems like he'll actually be able to do more than whisper in his ear "America is under attack"
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11-10-2008, 01:54 PM #10
If you follow the abortion debate closely, pro-abortion people actually do use the rape/incest thing quite a bit to argue for abortion in general.
as for rahm, I don't have an issue with the guy, just getting a little uncomfortable hearing all the ways Obama is going be immediately pushing things through and basically saying "i know I control all branches and I can now do what I want. And I plan on doing whatever I want immediately."
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Originally Posted by mintman2 
