Religion Questions??

[RedGoneWILD]

here's the video i was talking about ensberg....it's really a 5 hour long theory video, broken down in to 10 minute segments, but it's interesting regardless if it's believable...i think this is the specific section about jesus being caesarion

[gatorboymike]

Hmm... alright.

1.) if you want an answer, give me a specific question and not a list of "points"
2.) what branch of christianity are you pulling your conception of Jesus' "death" from?

~Dave

I find it unlikely that you managed to quote the actual question (below the "points") in your response and didn't see it.

No specific branch. They all believe the same thing anyway.

[BBcardsRI]

They all DO NOT believe the same thing. If they did, why would they have different names?

Dogma is a VERY tricky business.

So your question is really multiples questions... I quote yourself:

"So, the question is, if we deserve to spend eternity in hell and will certainly do so if we don't accept this Jesus guy's "gift," why did HE only have to spend three days there? If he really went there on my behalf, shouldn't he have to take the same punishment that's coming to me? Why isn't he still down there?"

Your questions are far too broad. But I will do my best. You only DESERVE to spend eternity in hell if you are sinful and non repentent. Jesus was not a "guy" he was and IS God. He did not only spend three days there, he spent no days there.

This is where Dogma comes into play, which is why what religion we are focusing on does matter.

You see, you really need to understand that religion is a complicated issue and can't be generalized.

According to MY faith, when Jesus "died" he went to "hadas" and not "geenna". That is, he went to the region of the dead and not to hell. My religions dogma states that everyone who died before Jesus went to hadas, and that after Jesus died, if a person died, they went to hadas if they were sinful, and to heaven if they were repentent. It is also in my religion's dogma that no human has yet been to geenna, and will not until Jesus second coming.

I hope this serves to clarify some things for you, and I am more than willing to give further clarification.

~Dave

[JeRmZ]

BBcardsRI - IMO it doesn't clarify anything it just goes to further prove that religion is based on one person's beliefs and not some book that lay's down "law" ....... If people would open up and accept new ideals in today's society there is a slight possiblity that we could avoid some of the horrible things that are happening in today's world. IMO it is the radical religious sector that is to blame for the downfall of society and when I say radical I don't mean off the wall crazy, insane, kill everyone radical I mean anyone that believe's someting without have experienced it or encountered it for themselves.

You can sit here and argue all day long that gay marriage should not be allowed because god said so or because the bible states it's wrong or that I'm going to hell because I have sin and have never repent my sins but what that tells me is that you are a puppet on a string my friend waiting for the big show sometime in the future in hopes to have a lead role.

What are people who hold "faith" in any religion going to do when the end is near and you end up with nothing but dirt in your face? in lehman's terms ... what happens when you don't go to heaven or hell?

[BBcardsRI]

It is not by shedding the Bible or any religion for that matter that the world would be a better and more equal place. It is by embracing the TRUE meaning of the religion that the world becomes a literal eden.

Christianity, Islam, Budhism, etc. if everyone subscribed to a religion and actually upheld what the TRUE doctrine of that religion taught, then the world would be at peace.

People instead choose to twist religion, to use it as a tool to gain something for themselves.

You may say, how, in believing that gay marriage is wrong in my religion is that putting the world at peace. I answer that it does so because my religion allows for gay couples to have every legal right that straight couples do. I have nothing against gays.

~Dave

[ensbergcollector]

there are things in scripture that open themselves up to be debated and to possibly have been cultural issues. However, in both old and new testament, the Bible is clear on homosexuality.

[JeRmZ]

sorry BBcardsRI but IMO I don't think so. It is because of all these religions and "beliefs" that the world has the issues that it does. Have you never heard that Politics and Relgions are the main causes of war and hate?? but we can just agree to disagree.

ensberg - bible is clear on homosexuality and that is that it is sin and should not be practiced therefor those people are shuned in society .. not saying you in particular may shun them but you have to agree that it is because of religion that the gay/lesbian community will never have the same EQUAL rights as a heterosexual.

and IMO ... that is sad!!!

[JeRmZ]

sorry BBcardsRI but IMO I don't think so. It is because of all these religions and "beliefs" that the world has the issues that it does. Have you never heard that Politics and Relgions are the main causes of war and hate?? but we can just agree to disagree.

ensberg - bible is clear on homosexuality and that is that it is sin and should not be practiced therefor those people are shuned in society .. not saying you in particular may shun them but you have to agree that it is because of religion that the gay/lesbian community will never have the same EQUAL rights as a heterosexual.

and IMO ... that is sad!!!

edit: guess I should say because of religion and our government. can't place all the blame on the hypocritical religious cooks!!

[gatorboymike]

They all DO NOT believe the same thing. If they did, why would they have different names? Dogma is a VERY tricky business.

Bottom line, I don't care what sect you belong to. All sects spring from the same basic tenets and it is those tenets, and what people like you turn them into and do with them, that I object to. Not to say that there are certain beliefs or actions of each individual sect that I don't object to as well, but you can't worm out from under my objection by saying it applies only to XYZ sect and not your particular one.

You only DESERVE to spend eternity in hell if you are sinful and non repentent. Jesus was not a "guy" he was and IS God. He did not only spend three days there, he spent no days there.

You can think he was a god if you want. I do not, and I never will. All I'm doing is humoring you, presenting a scenario that would apply in the event that your beliefs were true. That doesn't mean I believe them, or want to. "What if Christianity was true?" has the same meaning as "What if people were made of pancakes?" for me.

According to MY faith, when Jesus "died" he went to "hadas" and not "geenna". That is, he went to the region of the dead and not to hell. My religions dogma states that everyone who died before Jesus went to hadas, and that after Jesus died, if a person died, they went to hadas if they were sinful, and to heaven if they were repentent. It is also in my religion's dogma that no human has yet been to geenna, and will not until Jesus second coming.

So do you contend that I can be a repentent unbeliever and still go to this heaven thing? If that's it, then that's an answer to my question, that I don't need Jesus suffering in my place. However, if you contend that I must be repentent AND have faith in Jesus, you still haven't answered my question. So let me water it down for you: what purpose did Jesus' death serve, and what personal relevance does that have to me?

[ensbergcollector]

Bottom line, I don't care what sect you belong to. All sects spring from the same basic tenets and it is those tenets, and what people like you turn them into and do with them, that I object to. Not to say that there are certain beliefs or actions of each individual sect that I don't object to as well, but you can't worm out from under my objection by saying it applies only to XYZ sect and not your particular one.



You can think he was a god if you want. I do not, and I never will. All I'm doing is humoring you, presenting a scenario that would apply in the event that your beliefs were true. That doesn't mean I believe them, or want to. "What if Christianity was true?" has the same meaning as "What if people were made of pancakes?" for me.



So do you contend that I can be a repentent unbeliever and still go to this heaven thing? If that's it, then that's an answer to my question, that I don't need Jesus suffering in my place. However, if you contend that I must be repentent AND have faith in Jesus, you still haven't answered my question. So let me water it down for you: what purpose did Jesus' death serve, and what personal relevance does that have to me?

the wages of sin is death and seperation from god. Jesus' death takes the place of ours. But like any gift, it is only available for those that accept it.