Religion Questions??

[WilyWestbrook0]

here is the thing. you hate christians and everything they stand for. so for you to come into this thread and pretend you are open to hearing answers and thinking of them is a misrepresentation. You are taking opportunity to attack, belittle, and mock anyone who happens to believe in a religion. Since you are only looking to poke holes, it is pointless for anyone to even answer.

GBM generalizes a lot about Christians (and to a lesser extent, other religious groups), but I've been able to have discussions with him on an individual level where he doesn't do that. It apparently was your Holocaust/Hitler/Darwin remarks that set him over the edge with you personally, because before that, I don't remember any antagonism. But ever since that incident, no real productive discussion has taken place between you two. It's unfortunate because I think you both contribute a lot to the discussion on these forums when neither is angry. I'd suggest a mutual blocking (I think SCF has a block feature, IIRC), because I don't see any way for this to be resolved in the future without warnings/infractions, etc. issued.

[RedGoneWILD]

it is actually pretty well argued and put together. Better than most I have seen and I would love to see the rest. are they all on youtube? there are a couple of things that keep it from being accurate. Josephus, who they use as a source, lists a jesus of nazareth being crucified. Also, Jesus was like 30 years younger than caesarian.

they are all on youtube i believe...but it talks about much more than just whether jesus was caesarion...i think the next segment actually talks about the 30 year difference

[ensbergcollector]

GBM generalizes a lot about Christians (and to a lesser extent, other religious groups), but I've been able to have discussions with him on an individual level where he doesn't do that. It apparently was your Holocaust/Hitler/Darwin remarks that set him over the edge with you personally, because before that, I don't remember any antagonism. But ever since that incident, no real productive discussion has taken place between you two. It's unfortunate because I think you both contribute a lot to the discussion on these forums when neither is angry. I'd suggest a mutual blocking (I think SCF has a block feature, IIRC), because I don't see any way for this to be resolved in the future without warnings/infractions, etc. issued.

He and I go back and forth between rational conversations and not. This is just the latest example.


in your opinion, did I say anything that would be deserving of warnings? Did my comment about darwin and the holocaust in any way laugh at or spit on the deaths of people?

[WilyWestbrook0]

Nothing is there currently between you two that deserves warnings or infractions, but I am worried in the future that escalations may occur because of it.

[gatorboymike]

Please tell me how me saying darwin was more responsible than the bible has anything to do with me being condesending much less laughing about about peoples deaths and spitting on their grave. How dare I say something bad about darwin that is historically accurate. Wow, that must mean I hate all people who died in the holocaust! Are you kidding me? The only one who could get upset about that statement is a staunch evolutionist. And even then they couldn't accuse me of what you did. And if you really put your hand through a window based on that statement, do you really want to attack me for being unrational?

First of all, for you to claim that Darwin was responsible for the holocaust is a paranoid delusion that only a staunch creationist could have thought of. Are you so desperate to crush all points of view that differ from yours that you have to blame a mass genocide on them? Evolution had nothing to do with the Nazi regime whatsoever. Hitler's Christianity, and the nationalized form of Christianity that Nazi Germany practiced, however, had a great deal to do with it. Or do you really think that they put "God with us" on their uniforms to show their support for Darwin and evolution? There is a LOT of literature on the subject. And the idea that my ancestors died so that a genocidal totalitarian regime could mass-produce textbooks that say we descended from ape-like creatures is a grave insult to them and to me.

[ensbergcollector]

First of all, for you to claim that Darwin was responsible for the holocaust is a paranoid delusion that only a staunch creationist could have thought of. Are you so desperate to crush all points of view that differ from yours that you have to blame a mass genocide on them? Evolution had nothing to do with the Nazi regime whatsoever. Hitler's Christianity, and the nationalized form of Christianity that Nazi Germany practiced, however, had a great deal to do with it. Or do you really think that they put "God with us" on their uniforms to show their support for Darwin and evolution? There is a LOT of literature on the subject. And the idea that my ancestors died so that a genocidal totalitarian regime could mass-produce textbooks that say we descended from ape-like creatures is a grave insult to them and to me.

I do apologize if you took my statement to mean that or as an insult to your ancestors. I did not blame the holocaust on darwin. I was merely commenting on darwins place in the event, not blaming it solely on that at all. We can agree to disagree whether that factored into hitlers thinking. It is historical fact, and not paranoid delusion, that hitler was influenced by Darwin. It would be delusion to place full blame on him though.
You seem to be the one who is bent on crushing any view that opposes yours. Nothing in my language in this thread or any other has belittled someone else's opinion.

Also, the darwin connection has nothing to do with producing text books. It has to do with Hitlers jacked up mind believing that his people were the strong who would survive and the jews weren't. It was his messed up thinking that he was just aiding natural evolution. You are free to doubt this, but it is true.

[WilyWestbrook0]

If anyone is interested, I actually think Hitler's primary beliefs were based neither in evolution or Christianity. His entire system was rooted primarily in a very bizarre interpretation of Aryan mythology. In Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944, page 43, he is recorded as stating "Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." So, that dismisses his belief in Christianity quite plainly. As for evolution, Hitler dismissed it in Mein Kampf, saying that a "fox always remains a fox" (vol. 2, chap. xi). So, I'd say he dismisses evolution quite plainly as well. I don't see how either side can say his system was rooted in either.

[gatorboymike]

OK, I accept.

Far be it for me to psychoanalyze Hitler, but it seems to me as though he just wanted any excuse to demonize the Jews, and the concept of superior life forms evolving for lower ones, as well as the concept of a divinely chosen master race, both appealed to him. So did Darwin's work influence his thinking? I bet it did. But religion did, too.

[ensbergcollector]

OK, I accept.

Far be it for me to psychoanalyze Hitler, but it seems to me as though he just wanted any excuse to demonize the Jews, and the concept of superior life forms evolving for lower ones, as well as the concept of a divinely chosen master race, both appealed to him. So did Darwin's work influence his thinking? I bet it did. But religion did, too.

well, in case I wasn't clear before, I don't think that religion had nothing to do with it, just didn't think Christianity was to blame for the holocaust! Maybe we weren;t too far apart

[BuckeyeJosh]

can anyone shed some light and the 11 or so years the bible skipped over Jesus' life?