Who believes UD is using fake stuff?

[pmc336699]

You have a good point, Kelly, but it's not always about visual appeal. Let's say you're a player collector, and you are trying to get one copy of every card of your player. UD puts out a patch card /10 of your guy, and every single copy has a questionable patch. Your hands are tied. That's pretty much why I threw in the towel on trying for a complete PC. That, and UD has overproduced g/u & autos of Gaborik. When they put him in every single subset with umpteen parallels, it's easy to get burned out. It kind of takes away the thrill of the hunt.

[xirxious]

UD has used jerseys from Warm ups. THere was a news bit on about Ribiero and while he's talking, he switched jerseys twice. When the announcer asked what it was about, he said they're for card companies. I thought it was an agent switching them, but chances are, these jerseys trade hands 3 and 4 times before UD gets them.

Kind of hrd to tell with this Gaborik....

[MI5]

While I agree with so many sentiments in this thread, one comment I cannot help but make is that as collectors, we (not everyone, so have stopped due to these issues) have shown the card manufacturers that the integrity of the memorabilia comes second to visual appeal. Hence the introduction of photo shoot jerseys and non-NHL game memorabilia as well as manufactured patches. We have basically said, if it looks good we'll pay more for it. The authenticity of the product comes second to how good it looks. This is proven by the exponential difference in sales between a one color and a 3-4 color rookie patch. It's all photoshoot garbage. SPGU has made a living the last few years by adding Lettermarks, Numbermarks and Teammarks to the sets. These aren't even from a jersey the player touched.

A massive uproar is heard whenever a patch faker is exposed (and rightfully so, I don't condone it in the least), yet we essentially let the manufacturers get away with it.

We as customers permit so many things for the manufacturers to save money and effort. The jersey pieces as stated, sticker autos, redemptions, the same photography across a dozen different product lines, lack of design difference year after year across certain brands, etc. Meanwhile the price point continues to rise and the integrity continues to drop.

Bang on, Kelly...great post!

One particular point that I'd like to expand on...I admit that I once bought into the whole "patch envy" phenomena, especially in the case of 05/06 The Cup RCs. While I had a lot of fun building the /199 set over a period of several months, by the time I was done, I found myself feeling a bit jaded by the superficiality of the whole "photo-shoot" thing.

The hockey hobby picked up a slew of new collectors during the 05/06 season...and apart from the 05/06 Sid and AO Cup RCs, a lot of those collectors may not necessarily remember a time (02/03) when there were RCs that featured actual game-used memorabilia. I can't help but think that as more and more of the post-05/06 collectors come to the realization that what they're paying for are no more than patches cut from off-the-rack retail jerseys...the outcry for game-used RCs will just gain momentum.

While it's tough to say whether or not today's photo-shoot RCs are "overpriced"...it's a safe bet that prices would be even higher if those same RCs featured actual game-used swatches. And as for the "manufactured material" stuff...in my opinion, UD screwed up the product of the year with the Lettermen and Marks of Obsidian bs.

[weasel-king]

UD has used jerseys from Warm ups.

I know they used practice-used ones for a couple of insert sets, too, though those were clearly marked as such. A little different from warm up jerseys, though. Sheesh.

I can't help but think that as more and more of the post-05/06 collectors come to the realization that what they're paying for are no more than patches cut from off-the-rack retail jerseys...the outcry for game-used RCs will just gain momentum.

For those of you who remember the old notations like XRC or FTC in the guides, maybe someday we'll see FRGU (first real game-used). :)

[Prime B]

We as customers permit so many things for the manufacturers to save money and effort. The jersey pieces as stated, sticker autos, redemptions, the same photography across a dozen different product lines, lack of design difference year after year across certain brands, etc. Meanwhile the price point continues to rise and the integrity continues to drop.

Kelly, excellent points alla round thank you for your statement.

Me? I am not letting it happen anymore, at least not to the degree I did.

Everyone knows I am THE Kings guy/collector right? Ask me how many Kings cards I have this year of all the rookies like Brian Boyle, Drew Doughty, Erik Ersberg, Wayne Simmonds, Teddy Purcell, etc.?

ZERO.

No joke. I admittedly have bought Blake and Forsberg UD base and inserts to keep those PC's intact but haven't touched anything else. Dropped a crapload on ITG Ultimate pieces instead.

I have actually had some weirdos tracking my EBay purchases sending me PM's and e-mails asking why I haven't bought any Kings this year and am I still collecting them?

Speak with your wallets folks, YOU CAN DO IT as Rob Schneider would say.

[Prime B]

The hockey hobby picked up a slew of new collectors during the 05/06 season...and apart from the 05/06 Sid and AO Cup RCs, a lot of those collectors may not necessarily remember a time (02/03) when there were RCs that featured actual game-used memorabilia. I can't help but think that as more and more of the post-05/06 collectors come to the realization that what they're paying for are no more than patches cut from off-the-rack retail jerseys...the outcry for game-used RCs will just gain momentum.

Joshua, you're on the same track as me pal. Go back in the thread and I touch on some of the "pre 05/06" points. Thanks for the input.

[Prime B]

For those of you who remember the old notations like XRC or FTC in the guides, maybe someday we'll see FRGU (first real game-used). :)

[Prime B]

You have a good point, Kelly, but it's not always about visual appeal. Let's say you're a player collector, and you are trying to get one copy of every card of your player. UD puts out a patch card /10 of your guy, and every single copy has a questionable patch. Your hands are tied. That's pretty much why I threw in the towel on trying for a complete PC. That, and UD has overproduced g/u & autos of Gaborik. When they put him in every single subset with umpteen parallels, it's easy to get burned out. It kind of takes away the thrill of the hunt.

Word up Pat. I remember we talked about this in the fall.

It's like I have said, by the time Crosby finishes his career, if he plays like 15-20 years, his stuff is going to be massively watered down because of over proliferation.

But back on topic, yeah, UD has really screwed us all to some degree and I hope that their exclusive reign comes to a crashing halt because we deserve better.

We deserve AUTHENTIC.

Can that be the new collectors battle cry?

[MI5]

Good call, Joe ...I'm surprised it hasn't come to that by now.

For those of you who remember the old notations like XRC or FTC in the guides, maybe someday we'll see FRGU (first real game-used). :)

Also, not to get too OT, but I've been curious about this...at what point did the RC release schedule change from the way it used to be? A player's RC never used to be released until well into their first pro season (late in the product schedule within a series 2/update set), or in most cases, wasn't released until the following season/product year.

If the RC release schedule reverted back to the way it used to be, it seems that the whole photo-shoot thing could be done away with, as there would be more actual gamers available from the player's rookie season. Oh yeah, my bad...MeiGray vs Dick's...might cut into UD's profit.

[Prime B]

Good call, Joe ...I'm surprised it hasn't come to that by now.


Also, not to get too OT, but I've been curious about this...at what point did the RC release schedule change from the way it used to be? A player's RC never used to be released until well into their first pro season (late in the product schedule within a series 2/update set), or in most cases, wasn't released until the following season/product year.

If the RC release schedule reverted back to the way it used to be, it seems that the whole photo-shoot thing could be done away with, as there would be more actual gamers available from the player's rookie season. Oh yeah, my bad...MeiGray vs Dick's...might cut into UD's profit.

C'mon now Joshua, you know better.

Do you want the center of the winged wheel every year on your 13th consecutive Zetty Limited Logos worn by Tim Cheveldae or Bob at Big Five Sporting Goods?

I think you want an authentic swatch of Zet spokage actually worth something!