Interview with Upper Deck

[Prime B]

I like ITG a lot, but let's keep it honest here. ITG has issues too. Not many, but a couple of relatively serious ones:

1)Lack of serial numbering. I want my card to be # 2/10, or # 16/20, or # 1/1 if that's what it is. Not "the gold version, which according to the ITG website is 1/1". Put a F'*&^%G serial number on it, for the love of Pete.

2)The seals on their Superlative cards are downright shoddy. They dry out, and break apart.

3)The stock they have used for some patch/GU cards is inferior to that which UD uses for most high end products. It bends, even when kept in temperature/humidity controlled environments. This problem is especially prevalent amongst their toploaded cards, ie. superlative.



That said, I don't want to hijack the thread. Questions I would like UD to answer:

1)How is it that a company founded on being the manufacturer that prevented their clients from being defrauded, has fallen so far behind patch forgers, especially when there are such simple, and cost effective solutions available to stopping these forgers?

2)Will Upper Deck ever produce the 2006-07 SPGU Letter Marks that have been outstanding for almost 3 years now?

Serial numbering could be done in some instances but the only thing I will say in ITG's defense there is that if the card is damaged they have been know to remake it. Yes, that is CS.

I take my Superlative cards out to scan anyway so I guess for me that's not an issue?

As far as their stock, some cards could be better, yes. That said, I think UD has stock problems as well since you can PULL THE FREAKING CARDS APART AND FAKE PATCHES!

Oh, and to stay on topic, ask UD when they plan on getting not only the correct checklists out there, but in advance so collectors can budget accordingly and make INFORMED decisions?

There is nothing worse then buying products "blind". Sure you know the subsets two years in advance (because UD is SO innovative, <sarcasm>) but WHO and WHAT is in them?

That's like me buying a specific brand of car without knowing the model, engine size, amenities, etc...........................there are so many bumbleclucks down there it's a wonder they can even produce trading cards.................

[Nashrules]

Ok, it cant be about a specific issue related to a single card. that isnt worth asking. It has to be broached on a wider platform than that.

Here's how'd do it?

1. Does Upper Deck have a COMPREHENSIVE plan to handle all existing prior year unreceived redemptions before the 09/10 season?
1a. (follow-up): Does Upper Deck have a firm policy on using eBay vs Beckett value to determine replacements?
1b. Why, aside from cost, are replacements not issued on a "like for like" basis?

2. Forgery is becoming more and more common among the high end products on the secondary market (Cup RC's, etc.). What is Upper Deck's plan to provide customers with surety that the card they buy on the secondary market contains the original GU materials?
2a. has UD ever considered individually identifying every GU Patch, Patch/Auto, or GU/RC with a unique bar code for positive identification?

3. Even when received from the manufacturer, customers want surety of the correctness of the GU materials attached to cards. Does Upper Deck have a plan to provide more details regarding the source of the GU materials attached to cards.
3a. (followup) What prevents a picture of the actual item used from being part of the card, or placed on UD's website?

4. While collectors understand UD attempts to provide new and creative products each year, why do so many sets remain largely unchanged, especially sets that offer little in the way of unique features (black diamond, MVP, etc.)? Are these sets cheaper to produce, and therefore more profitable?

5. What do you say to UD's detractors that the lack of a competitive marketplace (aka a lack of NHL/NHLPA license for ITG) has allowed most of your quality and design issues to remain largely the same year after year?
5a. Does Upper Deck plan to continue on being the exclusive license holder as long as the NHL allows it?

6. In determining which products are produced each year, aside from profitability and sales, what else is taken into account?
6a. Does Upper Deck have any plans to more formally include the collector as a larger unit in the process of determining which products are produced each year (AKA a series of polls or formal surveys to customers registered with UD)?

7. We've seen recently a release from ITG that due to economic constraints in the current market, a very popular release was printed in much shorter amounts, and the number of "hits" per box were doubled. Has Upper Deck had made any similar production decreases due to the current state of the economy?

8. Has Upper Deck considered that the overprinting of most products is what leads to the declining values of said products from both a Beckett and secondary market standpoint?
8a. With the success of the Champs product, is Upper Deck considering more "boutique" sets with a highly limited print run that is not an ultra-premium product?

9. When Upper Deck packs out a product, it is aware of all cards placed in the boxes for sale, correct?
9a. If so, should this not allow UD to produce a valid checklist of all cards produced and released for each set?
9b. If not, and these issues are handled by the printer, why does UD not employ a laison to work full time at the printers factory to provide this information?

I'm sure there are more, but my head is tired of thinking of this right now.

[hossa18sens]

I just pulled a Auto Redemption from champs.

Maybe if they must have redemptions could they make it so the scratch off part will... well scratch off. ( I have had this problem a lot in the last couple of years)

Last I checked this is not new technology. I almost wore my way through the card trying to scratch it.

I guess I should have just scanned it so everyone could read the code. lol

[Prime B]

7. We've seen recently a release from ITG that due to economic constraints in the current market, a very popular release was printed in much shorter amounts, and the number of "hits" per box were doubled. Has Upper Deck had made any similar production decreases due to the current state of the economy?

9. When Upper Deck packs out a product, it is aware of all cards placed in the boxes for sale, correct?

7. This is gonna happen with The Cup as far as production numbers. The hits part I doubt.

9. I like this one. Why the heck do all these cards not pack out? It is insane. Get them in or pull them from the checklist. It is not fair that collectors don't have a a chance at some of these cards and then they show up no the secondary market as a replacement for redemptions. Total BS!

[Nashrules]

7. This is gonna happen with The Cup as far as production numbers. The hits part I doubt.

9. I like this one. Why the heck do all these cards not pack out? It is insane. Get them in or pull them from the checklist. It is not fair that collectors don't have a a chance at some of these cards and then they show up no the secondary market as a replacement for redemptions. Total BS!

With The Cup, the question is, did they know before or after they sent out the cards for signing that they were going to have to cut production. If they knew it before, they probably trimmed guys from each checklist to save money. What sucks is that the guys that save the most money are the big names.

If they knew it after, then it is possible base cards got cut, and the nuimber of hits per case will be slightly higher.

[reoddai]

Dear Upper Deck,

As chronicled by the history of the major trading card companies (some now defunct, some still in business) and in the book, "Card Sharks: How Upper Deck Turned a Child's Hobby into a High-Stakes, Billion-Dollar Business", it is well known that occasionally, highly sought after limited print run cards were never packed into products and were made available through "back door" connections. Furthermore, when product demand for certain sets was high, companies saw fit to create "second generation" cards by rolling off a second print run. Famous incidents involving Upper Deck include the 1991 French HI set and the Dale Murphy 1989 error card.

In today's market, certain events appear to be repeating themselves. A 05-06 The Cup Property of Sakik [sic] card was held back due to a spelling error. Rather than being destroyed and removed from the checklist, it was later offered as an incentive to a collector for their attendance to a Diamond Club meeting. Again dealing with 05-06 "the Cup", several cases sold through normal distribution channels have been identified as the "C" cases, where the C was partially shaded in. These cases were specially packed by Upper deck with withheld stock and notably devoid of key hits. These boxes were then provided as replacement product for hobbyist looking for replacements for unfulfilled redemptions. This was confirmed by online posts by an Upper Deck employee. Finally, the issue of Beckett breaking boxes with above average pulls. The most recent occurrence of this would be Panini's Football Classics where two patches and two "two of the class" auto cards. Another example involving Upper Deck would be the now infamous Exquisite football Box break where the Adrian Peterson 1/1 card was pulled. (for you non NFL fans, Adrian Peterson leads the NFL in rushes, there's no direct NHL equivalent, but its like having the most assists).

Finally, the apparent re-printing of hobby hot cards. For example, Upper Deck series 1, which used to have a single print version can now be found as hobby, retail boxes (36 packs), retail mini boxes (8-10 packs), loose fat packs, fat pack boxes and extra speciality packs / giveaways. A second example would be the 08-09 OPC retro cards which were initially inserted in the OPC release, then later to be found in the OPC update, and then later to be found in the corresponding baseball product.

With these examples in mind, what steps is Upper deck taking to ensure that the mistakes which virtually imploded the value of the hobby in the 90's does not repeat again? How does Upper Deck ensure the long term value of our collections? What assurances does the collector have of these actions given the emergence of the most recent actions your company has taken? Can you explain how the value of the hobby is retained when the number of sets is increased or decreased?

For those who are interested, one reference is here for Card sharks:
Card Sharks stories: http://fielderschoice.wordpress.com/...g-card-sharks/
The reference for the 05/06 UD The Cup "C" cases is located on another board and cannot be linked from SCF


Cheers,
reoddai

[RMillerFan]

Can you guys learn how to put up a checklist that was actually correct?

How many years will I be waiting for my Brian Boyle Ice Premiers Patch Auto?

Same with me Andy, why do they put someone on a checklist(ie Tyler plante SPA and ICE PATCH/AUTOS) then not even produce the card but produce other cards NOT on the Checklist?

ALSO

Why are there some rookies not in all the products like again with Plante, hes in victory,Black,BAP,SPA but not in other products like ICE, Ultimate, OPC Premier and a few others?

[Prime B]

Dear Upper Deck,

As chronicled by the history of the major trading card companies (some now defunct, some still in business) and in the book, "Card Sharks: How Upper Deck Turned a Child's Hobby into a High-Stakes, Billion-Dollar Business", it is well known that occasionally, highly sought after limited print run cards were never packed into products and were made available through "back door" connections. Furthermore, when product demand was high, companies saw fit to create "second generation" card of the same set by rolling off another print run. Famous involving upper deck include the 1991 French Hi set and the dale Murphy 1989 error card.

In today's market, certain events appear to be repeating themselves. A 05-06 The Cup Property of Sakik [sic] card was held back due to a spelling error. Rather than being destroyed and removed from the checklist, it was later offered as an incentive to a collector for their attendance to a Diamond Club meeting. Again dealing with 05-06 "the Cup", several cases sold through normal distribution channels have been identified as the "C" cases where the C was partially shaded in. These cases were specially packed by Upper deck with withheld stock and notably devoid of key hits and provided as replacement product for hobbyist looking for redemption replacements. The continuing appearance of extremely rare hits being opened by Beckett via their promotional boxes:
http://www.beckett.com/estore/news/?...ett&a=9351&s=1
Adrian Peterson 1/1
Finally, the apparent re-printing of hobby hot cards. For example, Upper Deck series 1, which used to have a single print version can now be found as hobby, retail box, retail mini box, fat packs loose, fat pack pox and speciality packs. A second example would be the 08-09 OPC retro cards which were initially inserted in the OPC release, then later to be found in the OPc update, and then later to be found in the corresponding baseball product.

With these examples in mind, what steps is Upper deck taking to ensure that the mistakes which virtually imploded the value of the hobby in the 90's does not repeat again? How does Upper Deck ensure the long term value of our collections? What assurances does the collector have of these actions given the emergence of the most recent actions your company has taken? Can you explain how the value of the hobby is retained when the number of sets is increased or decreased?

For those who are interested, here some references the references:
Card Sharks stories: http://fielderschoice.wordpress.com/...g-card-sharks/


Cheers,
reoddai

Great post. You actually hit on a few items I have been holding back on but since you did.....................

I can't log into HI because Bruce didn't like the way I played ball with one his admins. So let me recap for those of you who also can't log in that site:

The Saki"K" Property Of... card was supposedly offered by an UD employee to respected and reputable hobby dealer Steve Angel aka "quincy" who is a member of the Diamond Club and has the most thorough and incredible Sakic collection on the planet.

The story was told that he supposedly could have "had" it if he had attended the inaugural DC meeting in Las Vegas.

But hold the presses, there is more to this story.

It later ended up out on the market and was sold at The 2007 National in Cleveland by a dealer who acquired it from another dealer at a show in Chicago earlier in the year. (That's the story)

How did it get out there to this guy in Chicago in the first place? Things that make you say hmmmmmmm..........

The Diamond Club, or DC, as it is known to many, is for the top 100 collectors in the world. (supposedly)

I was in it but was taken out because I wasn't spending enough on UD products. (supposedly)

It is, somewhat, a joke. You can be in even if you don't support UD as long as you kiss enough brown area with the right people.

There are a number of members being "tracked" this year with the help of some people after my removal to see how they stood up to UD's supposed "standards" and minimum "qualifications" for being a part of the club.

Can I just say some "Diamond Clubbers" have spent less this ENTIRE YEAR than I did in some MONTHS on UD stuff when I was in the club.

I admit, there are many truly deserving people in the club but there are just as many who have no business being in it.

Like I said, for some in it, it is an utter farce, it's who you know, not what you spend like they claim.

Anyhoo, I am not even sure where the Saki"K" PO is now? Someone had it, people cried and whined over little pieces of cardboard and now......? I dunno.

Karine, I guess there now you have two more good questions. How did the Saki"K" Property Of... get loose on the market and who's hand (or bum) do you have to grease to get in the DC without spending money?

[30ranfordfan]

I won't bother adding anythign to the list.... but this is EXACTLY what I'd like to know from Upper Deck too.

2)Will Upper Deck ever produce the 2006-07 SPGU Letter Marks that have been outstanding for almost 3 years now?

[str8jkt]

I won't bother adding anythign to the list.... but this is EXACTLY what I'd like to know from Upper Deck too.

Add me to the list as well. Still have a Gretzky outstanding.

Also to add to that any of the 07/08 NumberMarks.. Have 2 Iginla numbermarks that I'm still waiting on.

Why put in redemptions for lettermarks and numbermarks if you're never going to make them?