Norris Trophy Finalists

[Spaltung]

I'm not going to comment on the tons of posts that have already been made after I started on the thread because it would take me a few pages to get in all of the debates.

However, I will put my two cents in. I agree with the LA faithful that Doughty is a great d-man and will probably be a multiple Norris trophy finalist/winner, but I don't think he's going to take it home this year. The reason being that Keith gets a ton of exposure being on a team like Chicago with other young superstars like Kane and Toews. Also, you have to look at both of their accomplishments. While both of them wen to the Olympics, Keith went as a starter and Doughty went as the seventh man. They both played wonderfully though, so being the starter or seventh man doesn't matter too much. To me, either one of them winning it would be completely fair to me.

Now, something that some people may disagree with. I would not count Green out at all. He played very well this year, even though he started off slow. People will criticize him and say that he shouldn't be in the conversation because of the fact that he wasn't good enough to make the Olympic team, but that's mostly because of his slow start and him not playing well in his own zone in the beginning of the season. The award is for the WHOLE season though. The rest of the season, he put up more points than anybody else and played very well defensivley in his zone. Just take a look at his +/-.

[cnshockey]

I'm not going to comment on the tons of posts that have already been made after I started on the thread because it would take me a few pages to get in all of the debates.

However, I will put my two cents in. I agree with the LA faithful that Doughty is a great d-man and will probably be a multiple Norris trophy finalist/winner, but I don't think he's going to take it home this year. The reason being that Keith gets a ton of exposure being on a team like Chicago with other young superstars like Kane and Toews. Also, you have to look at both of their accomplishments. While both of them wen to the Olympics, Keith went as a starter and Doughty went as the seventh man. They both played wonderfully though, so being the starter or seventh man doesn't matter too much. To me, either one of them winning it would be completely fair to me.

Now, something that some people may disagree with. I would not count Green out at all. He played very well this year, even though he started off slow. People will criticize him and say that he shouldn't be in the conversation because of the fact that he wasn't good enough to make the Olympic team, but that's mostly because of his slow start and him not playing well in his own zone in the beginning of the season. The award is for the WHOLE season though. The rest of the season, he put up more points than anybody else and played very well defensivley in his zone. Just take a look at his +/-.

The reason Green didn't make the Olympic team is because he's easily one of the worst defenseman in his zone. He really isn't a defenseman but moreso a forward who plays back on "defense"

[Spaltung]

The reason Green didn't make the Olympic team is because he's easily one of the worst defenseman in his zone. He really isn't a defenseman but moreso a forward who plays back on "defense"

I think you have to be pretty darn good in your own zone to end up with he 3rd best +/- in the entire league.

And I don't know if everybody has forgotten, but Green had a better season this season than last, and last year he was the runner up for the Norris trophy.

[cnshockey]

I think you have to be pretty darn good in your own zone to end up with he 3rd best +/- in the entire league.

No. You. Don't.

Washington was a +85 as a team. Really not hard to be that high of a +/- when your team is a +85 and you're the top offensive D man.

[Spaltung]

No. You. Don't.

Washington was a +85 as a team. Really not hard to be that high of a +/- when your team is a +85 and you're the top offensive D man.

They are +85 as a team because they are a great 5 on 5 team, and a large part of that has to do with their defense, which Green leads.

[CSSports]

I gotta make a case for Green on this one, yes it's a defensive award, but to go along with all the points, a PLUS 39? He had a ton more hits than Kieth, a lot more blocked shots and takeaways than Doughty and he did it in 7 games fewer than both of them. Keith does have a slight edge in ice time though.

Thats true on those stats but to have 44 takeaways in 76 games isnt even 1 per game - useless stat...doesnt say how anyone has done all season long

I'm sure I'll be called a homer for this - but here's why Doughty should win over Keith. I think Green ends up a distant third...

1. Keith played with a much better d-partner than Doughty (Seabrook vs. Scuderi)
2. Doughty played much better down the stretch (+5 vs -2 over last month of the season)
3. Their +/- over the year was equal but Chicago as a team was +62 while LA was +22. Shows Doughty had greater impact on his team.
Also, there are two stats that tell a lot to me...

Keith 3 PPG - Doughty 9 PPG
Keith 1 GWG - Doughty 5 GWG

Doughty is better on the power play and he scores clutch goals.

Overall, I think they are both great d-men, no question.

And I know the playoffs don't count but I think they do reflect on the player...

Keith 0-0-0 -4
Doughty 2-4-6 -2

I doubt Doughty will actually get the award, but I know I would rather have Doughty than Keith on my team any day of the week.

Fron the Stats below - Doughty is more of an all-around Defenseman

This what I mean by throwing stats out there

Even strength

Keith 11-42-53
Doughty 7-22-29

shorthanded
Keith 1-4-5
Doughty 0-0-0

So Keith is better shorthanded and at even strength

See PP #s & Shootout #s below :)

They are +85 as a team because they are a great 5 on 5 team, and a large part of that has to do with their defense, which Green leads.

Not exactly - They are +85 because they score more....they still gave up 2.80 goals a game....They scored 4.00 goals a game....THAT will get you a high +/- (8 Caps were in the top 20) Just means they scored more than they let in....This is a stupid stat anyway....does not tell the real story on how someone plays defense....just take a look at any "defensive" specialist - they do not lead the NHL in +/-




Here is what I posted in another thread -

I think this year is a toughie - there have been some great D-men this year where 3 would be hard to pick.....but it does have to be 3 so here are my predictions

Overall, I think these were the best D-men in the League....They contributed the most for their team and if you look strictly at the basic stats, Green should win...BUT if you look at the D-men as an all-around ability of the position, Green is not a clear cut winner.....I also feel Doughty HAS gotten plenty of press this year - EVERYBODY has been talking about him....even Cherry as you saw in the video.....

Now I could be wrong as I havent seen every Hawks or Caps game this season (although I have seen quite a bit) but I havent seen Green go up against every opposing teams top line every night. I dont see him as the shut-down guy on the Caps. I havent seen enough games to say anything about Keith as a shut-down guy but I DO KNOW Doughty is the shut-down guy on the Kings.....

Below are a few "other" stats - There may be more but I am too tired to look - maybe in the morning but although they are close in many catagories, I think Doughty leads in some of the "hidden" stats that you dont see everyday.....the little things that make a great "defensive player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position"

Doughty
Keith
Green

Player Team Pos GP G A P +/- PIM PP SH GW OT S S% TOI/G Sft/G FO%
1 Mike Green WSH D 75 19 57 76 39 54 10 0 4 1 205 9.3 25:28 24.5 0.0
2 Duncan Keith CHI D 82 14 55 69 21 51 3 1 1 0 213 6.6 26:35 29.5 0.0
3 Drew Doughty LAK D 82 16 43 59 20 54 9 0 5 1 142 11.3 24:58 26.4 0.0

Now a few "other" Stats
Hits - Doughty 157, Keith 82, Green 133
Blocked Shots - Doughty 76, Keith 143, Green 105
Shooting % - Doughty 11.3%, Keith 6.6%, Green 9.3%
Missed Shots - Doughty 76, Keith 85, Green 103
Shootout - Doughty 1/2, Keith 0/0, Green 0/2
Pt % to team total - Doughty 24.4%, Keith 25.4%, Green 23.9%
Power Play Pts - Doughty 31, Keith 16, Green 35
Power Play Goals - Doughty 9, Keith 3, Green 10
+/- - Doughty +20(#1Dman), Keith +21(#1Dman), Green +39(#2Dman- Schultz was +50)

[Prime B]

Look, I know we only have about 4 or 5 die hard Kings fans here arguing this but I kind of thought this was a more telling pulse of fans.

Check put the Norris poll, almost dead center, half way down the page.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/

Just the facts ma'am, just the facts.

[policeradio556]

Kinda shocked Chris Pronger was snubbed....

[agold2121]

Not shocked at all...

[Spaltung]

Look, I know we only have about 4 or 5 die hard Kings fans here arguing this but I kind of thought this was a more telling pulse of fans.

Check put the Norris poll, almost dead center, half way down the page.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/

Just the facts ma'am, just the facts.

So how many people did you pay to get online and vote for Doughty? Just kidding.

Yeah, I won't be surprised at all if Doughty wins. Strong season in every single category. I'd prefer him to win it over Keith and Green.

Kinda shocked Chris Pronger was snubbed....

Yeah, I was a little bit shocked as well.

Some of Pronger's numbers compared to the other three finalists:

Goals:
Doughty - 16
Green - 19
Keith - 14
Pronger - 10

Assists:
Doughty - 43
Green - 57
Keith - 55
Pronger - 45

+/-:
Doughty - +20
Green - +39
Keith - +21
Pronger - +22

Time on Ice:
Doughty - 24:58
Green - 25:28
Keith - 26:35
Pronger - 25:55

So, he wasn't really dominant in the number sense, but I still think he did an amazing job this season defensively and was one of the best defensive d-men all season long.

Here's what he said about not being a finalist:
“I didn’t start the season to win that award. It is what it is. I’m looking for a different trophy.”