The bible - fact or fiction???

[mrveggieman]

Not all christians or religious people do this. Some do but I'd say the majority don't have issue with other religions. They may not agree with it and debate those issues where they differ, but that's what we are doing here and I don't have issue with that.

I'm actually glad that we could all have this discussion in a respectful way. I pray that everyone reading this could learn something that they didn't know about others and can get a new found respect. I doubt that anyone will change their religious views because of this discussion but that wasn't the purpose. I do have a problem with hate mongerers pretending to be men of God only to spread racism, anti-semtism, homohobia and intollerance. Thanks God that they haven't participated in this discussion.

[Star_Cards]

Yeah, it's basically just semantics and splitting hairs but just confessing your sins does not necessarily get you into heaven. The heart is what God judges and there's no fooling Him.

I wasn't talking about just confession... The act of confession is a whole other discussion... lol

I'm saying someone that truly find God as he's sitting in prison for killing, raping, molesting, or doing any other horrible act that productive non believing citizens don't do. How would one worship a god that would accept the murder who found god after all of his horrible acts into heaven but not a non believer who lives his live well?

[Wudeverbro]

"True Christian" is a meaningless term. Every Christian thinks they are the true one and everyone who isn't exactly like them is the false one. And most of the time when people use that term, what they mean is "someone who is in absolute, complete and total agreement with all of my political views." Well, Bobby goes to church every week, reads his Bible, and has a Jesus fish decal on his SUV, but he has position X on political issue Y, and I have position Z on political issue Y. Bobby is obviously a FALSE CHRISTIAN!

Meanwhile, to nonparticipants in this orgy of exclusionism like me, all I see is a bunch of people standing in a circle, all pointing fingers and hurling accusations at one another, and it's just further evidence that none of them are actually in possession of the supernatural wisdom and goodness that they claim to be the sole possessors of.

It's unfortunate that you feel this way but not all Christians are of the kind that, if you don't believe in exactly what I believe, then you are for certain not a true believer. A lot of times when I read the Word I question what the true meaning is and there really is no way to possess all the "wisdom and goodness" of God. Any Christian who claims this is a false teacher and I would question their beliefs wholeheartedly.

[Wudeverbro]

I wasn't talking about just confession... The act of confession is a whole other discussion... lol

I'm saying someone that truly find God as he's sitting in prison for killing, raping, molesting, or doing any other horrible act that productive non believing citizens don't do. How would one worship a god that would accept the murder who found god after all of his horrible acts into heaven but not a non believer who lives his live well?

Hard to say. I mean I find it hard to believe that you can be that sincere when you're about to die and want to find eternal bliss. You're basically in a win-win situation so why the heck not and confess right?

Once again it boils down to the heart. If you can be all sincere in your profession of faith in your last breaths, more power to you.

[gatorboymike]

I don't think it's about being willfully ignorant but it's just that most Christians don't believe in what evolution is. Personally, I believe in a lot of it, just not the very early parts of evolution.

just because you do not believe in Christ, does not mean you are willfully ignorant of Christ. it just means you don't believe in Him.

You're right, there's a difference between not being convinced and being willfully ignorant. I'm aware of the claims made about Christ, I'm just not convinced they are true.

But the vast, vast majority of creationists ARE willfully ignorant, and this is plainly evident by their words. That other guy was saying "where are all the half-human, half-animal fossils?" Like he's expecting us to produce a skeleton of a present-day human's head on a present-day chimp's body. Anyone who actually knows what evolution is or how it works would know that's NOT how it works, no one is looking for any such thing, that is impossible according to our present understanding, and to find it would actually go against the theory. But you try to tell them that and they won't listen. Try to tell them there is no such thing as a chimp with a human head (or in Kirk Cameron's case, a duck with a crocodile head), and they won't listen. They'll say they won't believe in evolution until you can show them that. You say that's not how it works, and there is no such thing. Then they just repeat themselves. You try to tell them to go and actually research evolution, and they'll say they don't have to, because they already know it's wrong...based on nothing but their personal preferences and prejudices. That IS willful ignorance.

[mrveggieman]

I wasn't talking about just confession... The act of confession is a whole other discussion... lol

I'm saying someone that truly find God as he's sitting in prison for killing, raping, molesting, or doing any other horrible act that productive non believing citizens don't do. How would one worship a god that would accept the murder who found god after all of his horrible acts into heaven but not a non believer who lives his live well?

If I could offer my spin on your question I do believe that God gives second chances if you are sincere about getting your life right. However I disagree when people say that someone who is an overall good person will go to hell because the followed the "wrong" religion. I believe that there will be christians, jews, muslims and a host of others in heaven.

[Star_Cards]

I'm actually glad that we could all have this discussion in a respectful way. I pray that everyone reading this could learn something that they didn't know about others and can get a new found respect. I doubt that anyone will change their religious views because of this discussion but that wasn't the purpose. I do have a problem with hate mongerers pretending to be men of God only to spread racism, anti-semtism, homohobia and intollerance. Thanks God that they haven't participated in this discussion.

same here. We haven't had a good discussion in the politics/religion board in some time. I'm liking it!!!

[Wudeverbro]

You're right, there's a difference between not being convinced and being willfully ignorant. I'm aware of the claims made about Christ, I'm just not convinced they are true.

But the vast, vast majority of creationists ARE willfully ignorant, and this is plainly evident by their words. That other guy was saying "where are all the half-human, half-animal fossils?" Like he's expecting us to produce a skeleton of a present-day human's head on a present-day chimp's body. Anyone who actually knows what evolution is or how it works would know that's NOT how it works, no one is looking for any such thing, that is impossible according to our present understanding, and to find it would actually go against the theory. But you try to tell them that and they won't listen. Try to tell them there is no such thing as a chimp with a human head (or in Kirk Cameron's case, a duck with a crocodile head), and they won't listen. They'll say they won't believe in evolution until you can show them that. You say that's not how it works, and there is no such thing. Then they just repeat themselves. You try to tell them to go and actually research evolution, and they'll say they don't have to, because they already know it's wrong...based on nothing but their personal preferences and prejudices. That IS willful ignorance.

True. I can understand the frustration of a Christian who doesn't actively try to understand what evolution really is. If you are quick to not listen, then definitely you're willfully ignorant. it's unfortunate that some are not willing to listen but I can say for myself, I've always been fascinated with it and I do think evolution was incorporated with creation in the beginning. But that's just me.

[gatorboymike]

Some theists accept evolution but reject abiogenesis. I'm not sure what to think about them.

[Wudeverbro]

Some theists accept evolution but reject abiogenesis. I'm not sure what to think about them.

I see. What is abiogenesis?