Tim thomas

[OBOMBA]

OBOMBA, you couldn't have missed the point any more than you did. Not possible.

The list wasn't designed to compare eras -- everyone with even the most remedial knowledge about NHL hockey history knows what the 80s were like. The point, as it is clearly made in my previous post, is that each decade seemed to have one - and certainly no more than two - goaltending candidates worthy of inclusion into the HHOF.

1980s: Smith
1990s: Fuhr
2000s: Roy
2010s (to date): Belfour

We're going to see Hasek and Brodeur enshrined, as they should be. But the point, once again, is that for a goaltender to make the Hall, he has to be REALLY FREAKING GOOD. And good for a long time.

Since it was difficult to assess just how good a goaltender was in those firewagon days of the late-1970s and entire 1980s, my belief is that goalies from that era were rewarded as much for what their teams did as how they performed themselves. Fair? Probably not ... but there honestly wasn't a better way to decide it. Your average netminder was letting in 3.9 goals per game. So the HHOF committee rewarded the guys who let in the fewest. Smith benefited from the Isles' dynasty just as Fuhr did for the Oilers' dominance. And I don't have a problem with that.

But now ... you're seeing goalies post eye-popping stats year after year after year. Yet, as good as the current crop of goalies is, they can't all get in. Hasek makes it, as does Brodeur ... but then who? You think Thomas is going to beat out some of the guys he might have to compete against for HHOF selection? Assuming he plays three more years, here's what he might be up against:

Jaromir Jagr
Teemu Selanne
Mats Sundin
Mark Recchi
Mike Modano
Brendan Shanahan
Nicklas Lidstrom
Chris Chelios
Pierre Turgeon
Joe Sakic
Adam Oates (there's a growing groundswell for him to get in)

Not to mention other worthy goaltenders who were very good AND managed to stay that way for far longer than Thomas ultimately will:

Curtis Joseph
Chris Osgood
Mike Vernon
Tom Barrasso

You have a handful of other goaltenders who either have 300 wins, or are on the way:

Nikolai Khabibulin
Roberto Luongo
Evgeni Nabokov
Miikka Kiprusoff
Tomas Vokoun
Jose Theodore
Ryan Miller
Henrik Lundqvist

So I absolutely stand by what I said earlier. You can feed me Thomas' stats for the past several seasons. I've seen them many times before. They're great. But they're not Hall of Fame stats. If he can fashion four or five more great seasons, then we'll talk. But as of right now? He has a lot of catching up to do. That's just how the HHOF works. Ask all the other goalies who have been spurned time and time again.

ok, ok well put.

i never said he should get in before the others but 3 more elite seasons or 2 vezinas or 1 cup and 1 more vezina gets him in for me. its cool i respect your opinion but i think with the amazing nhl records/ accomplishments at such a old age is absolutely epic.

[30ranfordfan]

From that list of four, I see 1 guy that has the inside track on a HOF career..... and that's Fleury.

Curtis Joseph played in the NHL for 20 years. He won more than 30 regular season games 7 times, and broke the 25 win mark another 4. Overall, he had more wins than losses in 15 of those 20 years. He won a total of 454 games, which is good for 4th all time.

Curtis Joseph, in the minds of most people, is a border line Hall of Famer, at best - and there is almost zero chance that any of the four on that list will ever touch his career win total.

Fleury, becuase of the team he plays for, has a very real chance to win multiple championships. He's young enough that'll he'll be able to ride along with Crosby, Malkin, Stall, Letang.... for as long as that team can be kept together.

That's what it's going to take. Obviously if one of those other guys can push into the 300+ win total, and win a couple of championships, they'll have a decent shot..... but the likelyhood of that happening is so slim, I can't see it happening.

Brodeur is the only active goalie that's a lock (and that's becuase of his body of work over the last 15 years, not becuase of anything he's done really recently, or will do before he's done).

Going back to Thomas - is short shelf life, and lack overall career accomplishments keeps him out, almost for sure. I think I said in a previous post - unless Thomas ends up with a post-season career similar to that of Ken Dryden (it's unlikely, but yes..... it's certainly possible) there's no chance.

o yeah by the time these guys careers are over they will be in the HOF

fleury, lundqvist, miller, rinne

count on it

plus i think thomas is gonna have another award filled year. wait till he gets hot, his stats are already insane.

[bojohnson]

o yeah by the time these guys careers are over they will be in the HOF

fleury, lundqvist, miller, rinne

count on it

plus i think thomas is gonna have another award filled year. wait till he gets hot, his stats are already insane.

count on it?
that years in the future, what are you a self proclaimed forutne teller?

all 4 of those wont be in the hof, how many stanley cups do they have?
oh ya, thats right 1 all together combined.

[edthesandwich]

You know, Ranford, I agree with about 95% of what you say, and the 5% I don't isn't really me saying "you're wrong and therefore stupid" as it is "I think you may be underestimating a key statistic."

Each of those goaltenders, with the exception of Rinne, is conceivably headed to a 400-win season.

With the elimination of ties, teams - and subsequently, goaltenders - are winning more games. A lot of them, it would appear. Check out the totals to date:

Fleury: 26 years old, 195 career wins
Lundqvist: 29 years old, 220 career wins
Miller: 31 years old, 206 career wins
Rinne: 29 years old, 105 career wins

With improved fitness and conditioning, we're seeing goaltenders play - and play well - close to their 40s. (Roloson, Brodeur, Khabibulin, etc.) Combine those two factors, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see 400 wins as the new benchmark for minimum inclusion in the Hall.

It isn't really a criticism, just a strong belief that from this point forward, 300 wins will mean nothing. Heck, Carey Price has 107 wins and he's only 24. If he starts 10 more years and earns 30 wins a season (easily attainable barring injury or horrendous luck), he'll have 400 at age 34, with an outside shot at 500.

As you said, it'll take Vezinas and Cups. And they're only giving one of those out per season. It's going to be a dogfight for these goalies.

[Bison]

If so, its a life lesson that anyone who keeps on truckin like he has, things work out, and hes just on cruise control now

[MatsSundin13Rocks]

The Hall of Fame should honour the best of the best. Tim Thomas had the best season of a goalie ever!!! Save % is the # that matters most to me. Look at how hard he battles. I'm not even a Bruins fan and not saying he should make it for sure but goalies sure get the shaft by the HOF. Fuhr is only in cause he played on the best offensive team of all time. His personal stats are brutal!!! GAA and SV% make a goalie great. Wins and championships depend on the team effort. No dynasties are going to occur anymore. Smith and Fuhr were playing when dynasties were possible. Goalies should get admitted based on their impact on the game, personal stats, personal awards, etc. Broduer, Hasek, CuJo, Barasso, and Ritcher should make it in the HOF.