The Case for Brian Burke

[edthesandwich]

I for one don't think that Brian Burke is that great of a GM. Brian Murray was the man that put all the pieces of the puzzle together in Anaheim before he left, not Burke.

I realize this was from the Bobby Ryan thread, but I figure my response deserves its own section that won't detract from the Ryan chatter.

Hice, I can't argue with your logic surrounding the Anaheim situation, you're bang on there. I do, however, think that Burke deserves some credit for putting together a competitive team probably two years ahead of schedule. Yes, Schenn has seen his share of struggles, and yes, Kadri remains AHL fodder. But they're both very, very young and have plenty of room to grow. Kadri, in particular, deserves nobody's scorn. He's 21 and averaging a point per game in the AHL. Anyone who can be that prolific in that league at that age has better than good odds to be a solid NHL player. Maybe he doesn't develop as quickly as guys like Tavares, or Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, but those guys are phenoms. Kadri is destined to be a good (if not necessarily great) player.

If you look at how Toronto built its top two lines and top two defense pairings, you can see why Burke - along with Cliff Fletcher and yes, even John Ferguson, Jr. - are worthy of praise:

Joffrey Lupul (Burke): A throw-in in the Beauchemin trade. Enjoying a phenomenal resurgence because a team finally gave him a chance to log some ice time with guys other than third-line pluggers. I don't know what went wrong in Anaheim, but this guy looks completely reborn. It's early, yes ... and Leaf fans would be wise to temper expectations. But you can't disregard what he's done to date.

Phil Kessel (Burke): Acquired for two first-rounders and a second-rounder, but no actual roster players. Yes, Seguin is great, and this is not designed to be another "who won the trade" thread ... those have been done to death. Let's say both teams won. Toronto has the NHL scoring leader - I don't care what they gave up, Kessel's a stud and is not yet 25.

Tim Connolly (Burke): Signed to a two-year/$9.5-million deal in the off-season. Yes, it was a reach for the price they paid given Connolly's brittleness, but that's the price of doing business. And early on, he's averaging a point per game - nearly the exact scoring pace the Rangers are getting from Brad Richards. Toronto knew it was paying for 60 games and if it got 65 or 70, it would get a bonus. By those parameters, it was a decent signing.

Clarke MacArthur (Burke): Cut because Atlanta didn't think he was worth $2.4 million, scooped by Toronto for $1.1 million - and performing like a guy worth $3 million (which is almost what he makes now). Shrewd pick-up, and has nine goals in 19 games already this season. A great move, no matter how you look at it.

Mikhail Grabovski (Fletcher): Acquired for the rights to Greg Pateryn (exactly) and a second-round pick the Habs turned around for Robert Lang (double exactly). He runs hot and cold, but any one of us would make that deal again in a heartbeat. He'll need a big surge to reach the 55-point plateau again, but he scores in bunches, so I can't rule it out.

Tyler Bozak (Burke): Signed out of college. Last year was a major step back, but he has responded so far this season. He's still the third-best passer on the club behind Kessel and Connolly, and if he can maintain a reasonable level of confidence he's a dangerous player.

Now let's look at the top-2 defensive pairings:

Dion Phaneuf (Burke): Acquired with Keith Aulie and Fredrik Sjostrom for the ultimate poo-poo platter. How more people in Calgary weren't fired for this deal, I'll never know. It's one thing to want a guy out of the locker room, but giving him away for next to nothing is another matter altogether. In fact, with Stajan colder than Hoth, Hagman waived, White subsequently dealt for Tom Kostopoulos and Anton Babchuk and Mayers not re-signed, it stands to reason that Aulie is actually the second-best guy in the deal. Regardless, Phaneuf has emerged as a solid top defenseman - not quite in the category of Weber, Letang or Chara, but definitely in the B group. And oh, yeah, he's only 26.

John-Michael Liles (Burke): Acquired for a second-round pick in 2012. Seriously. He "only" had 40 assists last season, and is on pace to surpass that this season. He does exactly what Tomas Kaberle did while he was in Toronto, except he makes better decisions with the puck, is more assertive on the pinch (which can work for and against you) and blocks more shots. He's a great No. 2, mainly because he doesn't have to be the No. 1 guy.

Jake Gardiner (Burke): The guy the Leafs REALLY wanted in the deal for Beauchemin. I always love when guys come out of nowhere to become everyday players ... it feels like a bit of a Cinderella story to me, you know? I'm really not a fan of Toronto media treating this guy like he's the second coming of Nicklas Lidstrom, but he is a really, really good blue liner. And he's only 21. Phenomenal.

Luke Schenn (Fletcher): Drafted fifth overall in 2008. I'm not sure if Burke would have taken him here had he been in charge, but that's not relevant to the conversation anyhow. Schenn has had flashes of brilliance in a sea of mediocrity, but he just turned 22 - and let's not overlook the fact that he already does some things really well. He led the NHL in hits last season and was 12th in blocked shots. And aren't those two qualities you want from a towering defenseman? If the Leafs were to make him available in trade, 29 teams would have their cell phones out faster than Chad Ochocinco after a touchdown (when he used to score them, that is.)

Now for the goalies:

James Reimer (Ferguson): Taken in the fourth round of the 2006 draft, 99th overall. Want some netminders taken ahead of him that year? How about Riku Helenius (15th), Leland Irving (26th), Jeff Zatkoff (74th) and Daniel Larsson (92nd)? Ferguson didn't do a lot right in his time with Toronto, but Reimer is looking like an absolute steal.

Jonas Gustavsson (Burke): Signed to a two-year/$2.7-million deal in 2010. Definitely more sizzle than steak here. This was a gamble that has ultimately ended up backfiring, but it only cost the Leafs $1.35 million for two seasons - a sunk cost Toronto can easily afford - and expires next summer, just in time for Reimer and Ben Scrivens to form what looks like a solid tandem. Swing and a miss, but not a game-changer by any stretch.

All of these players, except for Reimer, Schenn and Grabovski, were acquired under Burke. And what did they give up to get them? A handful of draft picks, some roster flotsam and free-agent deals. Add in Nazem Kadri (who remains a wild card due to his age), Joe Colborne (acquired for Tomas Kaberle, who has been a ghost since leaving Toronto) and Scrivens (another undrafted free agent who should be the backup next season) - all Burke additions - and the future is bright in Toronto.

Brian Burke may get a lot of flak for being standoffish with the media and bristling at trade rumors, but what he has done to rebuild this team is nothing short of incredible. I'm not even talking about the first 25 games of this season; with one of the youngest rosters in the league, the Maple Leafs are in a great position to be competitive for many seasons to come.

(And I'm not even a Leaf fan, BTW ... )

[centrehice]

My problem is not with Burke when it pertains to the Leafs, my problem has always been with Wilson.

Some players I understand need a certain coach, Kris Versteeg is 7th in NHL scoring, and it's known that Wilson had a problem with him.

I rest my case. Wilson wins a Mug, I will be first in line to kiss his hiney.

The only reason I placed the comment about Burke and Anaheim is that so many were bowing down to him for Randy Carlyle, and what a magnificent job he did in bringing a Cup to Anaheim, when Murray did all the groundwork.

[gary991979]

Well said

Thanks for the good read

[bojohnson]

My problem is not with Burke when it pertains to the Leafs, my problem has always been with Wilson.

Some players I understand need a certain coach, Kris Versteeg is 7th in NHL scoring, and it's known that Wilson had a problem with him.

I rest my case. Wilson wins a Mug, I will be first in line to kiss his hiney.

The only reason I placed the comment about Burke and Anaheim is that so many were bowing down to him for Randy Carlyle, and what a magnificent job he did in bringing a Cup to Anaheim, when Murray did all the groundwork.

Quote:
Originally Posted by centrehice
I for one don't think that Brian Burke is that great of a GM. Brian Murray was the man that put all the pieces of the puzzle together in Anaheim before he left, not Burke.



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[swd0101]

Ed, you make some very good points. And before I go on my rant here, I will say that I'm a hugh fan and I'm dying for some playoff hockey.
I think the key to Lupul's success is two fold: his ice time with Kessel and his health. For the past number of years, he has struggled with a bad back. This year he has been healthy.
I also think that Centrehice brings up an important issue: Ron Wilson. Its funny that they are talking contract extension when Wilson has been a failure thus far. He would have been fired in 2010 but he was saved by the fact that GM of the US Olympic team was his NHL GM. Lets not kid ourselves, if Wilson wasn't the US coach, he would not be with the Leafs today. And the Leafs horrible penalty kill under Wilson is a joke. To me, bottom line, Burke's loyalty to Wilson has hurt the Leafs.
Mike Komisarek. While his play has improved considerably this year, I think most will agree that this was a horrible deal. Without offending anyone, Burke has an alarming liking for American born players. Which leads me to.......
Tim Connoly. I agree with Ed's idea here. Yes he is injury prone, yes he was overpaid but in my opinion this was one of Burke's best moves. The short contract was brilliant. Connoly was brought in to help jumpstart Kessel but no handicap the team with a long, overpaid player.
Jake Gardiner was a great trade and not just because of Lupul's play.

to be continued.....

[swd0101]

Clearly Im off work today and feel strongly about the Leafs. Me and my buddies argue about this for hours and i would love to get the opinions of others. Ultimately, Burke's legacy in Toronto will revolve around the Kessel deal. And I'm very torn about this deal. I love the way Kessel has played this year and recognize his special talents. But unless the Leafs win the Cup with Kessel, this deal is at best, even. The Leafs were a non playoff team when Burke made this deal. And most Cup winning teams aren't built around a winger. Its years of trading away first round picks that have gotten the Leafs in the mess they have been in for the last five plus years. The fact that the pick the Leafs traded away turned into a great player is just rubbing salt in the wounds. By the time the Leafs are really a Stanley Cup contender, Kessel will be a free agent.
The second deal with Boston was definitely a steal for Burke.Joe Colbourne could be the number one center we have needed since Mats left and the first and second round picks we also received were gravy. Kaberle, while a part of the cup winning team, was at best a bit player.
So if anyone is still with me after that long winded rant, I think Burke's grade for his time with the Leafs is incomplete. What happens in the next three years will define his legacy as the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

[centrehice]

Clearly Im off work today and feel strongly about the Leafs. Me and my buddies argue about this for hours and i would love to get the opinions of others. Ultimately, Burke's legacy in Toronto will revolve around the Kessel deal. And I'm very torn about this deal. I love the way Kessel has played this year and recognize his special talents. But unless the Leafs win the Cup with Kessel, this deal is at best, even. The Leafs were a non playoff team when Burke made this deal. And most Cup winning teams aren't built around a winger. Its years of trading away first round picks that have gotten the Leafs in the mess they have been in for the last five plus years. The fact that the pick the Leafs traded away turned into a great player is just rubbing salt in the wounds. By the time the Leafs are really a Stanley Cup contender, Kessel will be a free agent.
The second deal with Boston was definitely a steal for Burke.Joe Colbourne could be the number one center we have needed since Mats left and the first and second round picks we also received were gravy. Kaberle, while a part of the cup winning team, was at best a bit player.
So if anyone is still with me after that long winded rant, I think Burke's grade for his time with the Leafs is incomplete. What happens in the next three years will define his legacy as the GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

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That's unfortunate, as it should only be about Stanley Cups. He should only be judged by his success with winning, not one particular trade transaction with another club.

[bojohnson]

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That's unfortunate, as it should only be about Stanley Cups. He should only be judged by his success with winning, not one particular trade transaction with another club.

you judge a gm by what he does to provide the team with a winning oppurtunity, and how his moves have worked out.

its a LONG process, and if we judge like that, that means that detroits gm, is bad too, because he hasnt won the cup in a few years.
things take time, just because they havent won with leafs yet doesnt mean they wont.

burke already has won the cup as gm, so by those standards, hes a great gm?

[centrehice]

Bo:

You argue when somebody agrees with you, you argue when they don't. You must be a Leo, that is the only explanation.

you judge a gm by what he does to provide the team with a winning oppurtunity, and how his moves have worked out.

its a LONG process, and if we judge like that, that means that detroits gm, is bad too, because he hasnt won the cup in a few years.
things take time, just because they havent won with leafs yet doesnt mean they wont.

burke already has won the cup as gm, so by those standards, hes a great gm?

[bojohnson]

Bo:

You argue when somebody agrees with you, you argue when they don't. You must be a Leo, that is the only explanation.

i just like burkie....