Does anyone else feel this way?

[doniceage]

I sincerely hope that the bottom falls out of the card market again. Really.

I HATE going on eBay and seeing stuff like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Steve-Yzerma...item2571de82b1

While a few weeks ago I was bidding on this exact card for my PC. Here is what it went for (as a side note, I only had 65.00 in my Paypal account, which is why I quit bidding.)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/11-12-ITG-CA...item35bcc53340

I understand capitalism and everything. Hell, I love capitalism. But, Christ where does it end?

What happened to collecting? I understand that this is an expensive hobby and people need to sell sometimes. I do it myself. But why try to rip off your fellow collector?

Ignore me if you want, I'm just frustrated.

I will not ignore you but I think we all feel good when we get a good price for our cards. Very few people pass the deal onto other collectors. Who among us does boxbreaks as close to cost as possible? Some people do this as a hobby and some for a business. So there no reason to get mad just enjoy the hobby with what you can afford. Did you not get a zetty rookie worth 250 dollars in a gb for a fraction of the pay in, plus a ton of other hits? I do not see why you let one auction upset you so, but I guess that just me.

Much like folks clamor about the high prices how many post do you see about EBAY steals where folks got ripped off by capitalism if you listen to the op on their great steal. In the end I think it truly balances out.

I know, I know. That's why I mainly collect Yzerman inserts and parallels, but I do want a few nice memorabilia pieces for my collection. Captain-c is a very nice set, and even though it is not a true 1/1, I still wanted it for my PC because it is the same card as the /9 version. Thanks for trying to make me feel better, and if the other guy had been an Yzerman collector I wouldn't have been angry, but because he is a profiteer it really just gets to me.

You will always have chances to pick up nice memorobilia pieces. Just be patient and they will come to you. Just stay the course and your pc will grow.

It's like the rest of society today, we actually need a crash, or we are slowly sufficating while we pretend we're not. This hobby needs a crash, it's so much inflation in it it's ridicoulous. And no, I'm afraid capitalism don't work very well either, at least not without some kind of great control mechanism that keep it in steady pace. Same with hockeycards. Had there been rules in place in the 90's and ahead till today that only... say 5, products could be produced every year, we never would have had this situation today where you can buy a Malkin 1/1 for $70, or get $35 for a supersweet Tony Esposito stick piece in 10 ex.

Linda,
Is that not capitalism as the prices have been dropping. You say 5 products and if that was the case prices would be higher due to limited product. It sounds like captalism is working perfect to me.

DON

[CoolHandLuke]

It's the same thing over and over again. 1/1 have no price tag and goes for what someone is willing to pay. It's not because one collect a player that all his card should be available for him to buy. If this was the case then 1/1 would not have value.

I pulled a sheild last year and sold it for 800$, the next day I had a offer of 1200$. So did I do good, yes because I was happy with the 800$ looking at how much other went for from the same set. I could have refused the 800$ and got nothing close to that after. SO it's always a gamble.

I know I don't care much about 1/1 unless I can afford it. If not then no big deal, I got plenty of nice Carey Price cards. Collecting is not about being the bigest out there but about having fun.

There will always be person to buy to turn a profit and lower 1/1 for those who can invest and wait to have their asking price will always turn a profit most of the time because some collector want them so much. So this is capitalism at his best from all I know.

I think we true collector are the one driving the market and at time some of us decide we have the cash and want the card no matter what the price is. This is why at time certain card sell for way more. Then again at time, auction sell way under expectation. This is the game of auction, at time you get deal and other time no deal there.

That is the auction world. If that was not true, card would have no value. Other 1/1 will pass and maybe this time you can grab one. After all this is only a show card and I would not feel that bad. Your player is widly collected and this is something to expect. If your expectation would be like mine then you would not feel bad. I realise a long time ago that I can only get what I can afford and feel good when I get certain card for the right price. All the one I could not get, well that is life and I don't feel bad since I know I can't get them all.

When I look at my collection room, I know many would love to have such collection. Then again, I know other have way bigger collection and that is fine too! I glad to have what I have and it keep growing every month.

[centrehice]

It's like the rest of society today, we actually need a crash, or we are slowly sufficating while we pretend we're not. This hobby needs a crash, it's so much inflation in it it's ridicoulous. And no, I'm afraid capitalism don't work very well either, at least not without some kind of great control mechanism that keep it in steady pace. Same with hockeycards. Had there been rules in place in the 90's and ahead till today that only... say 5, products could be produced every year, we never would have had this situation today where you can buy a Malkin 1/1 for $70, or get $35 for a supersweet Tony Esposito stick piece in 10 ex.

We only need a reality crash for overpriced game-used cards, that is where the problem lies, it's not with the cardboard.

[Yzerfan]

I don't want anybody to misunderstand, I am not against people selling their cards and making a little bit of money. What I AM against are people buying a card for a price and then trying to make 6 times their money back.

Don, what you and many other group break hosts do is completely fine in my opinion. You are adding to the enjoyment of the hobby. It is a positive thing. I'm even okay with people flipping cards, there just comes a point when it is obnoxious though. An example would be some of the people in the buying/selling section wanting to give you 20% of what your card is actually worth. It's highly annoying and those are the people I would love to see get burned big time.

[CoolHandLuke]

I don't want anybody to misunderstand, I am not against people selling their cards and making a little bit of money. What I AM against are people buying a card for a price and then trying to make 6 times their money back.

Don, what you and many other group break hosts do is completely fine in my opinion. You are adding to the enjoyment of the hobby. It is a positive thing. I'm even okay with people flipping cards, there just comes a point when it is obnoxious though. An example would be some of the people in the buying/selling section wanting to give you 20% of what your card is actually worth. It's highly annoying and those are the people I would love to see get burned big time.

I think all true collector understand what you mean. But what we are trying to say is that these people will always be there and it's not a reason to be mad or down because they are there. Where there is money to be made there will be people trying to turn a profit. Some do this as a job.

We collector are the target and it's really up to us to not buy that high and eventually price will drive down. But this is also a wish that will probably never happen because some collector have deep pocket and will reach in them to get what they want. I too would rather pay less. I think the point we are trying to bring to you is to not let these affect your collecting. There will be other 1/1 and one day you will most certainly grab one at a reasonable price.

I have only 2 true 1/1 and got there from member here. At time you will see member that rather sell for less and let a true collector get that one card. I have to admit that I paid quite a lot for my 1/1 Dryden cut auto but it's also the first Cut auto ever made coming from a major release and only one more was made since. The other are really from what I consider like not real hockey release and I don't see them as true one fo one but more at a card show card level. I am sure the member could probably have gotten more if he really wanted. The other one was a limited carey price 1/1 auto and I got it for only 100$ if I remember well and again from a member I apreciate a lot and if he get more nice card like this one, I know he will think of me.

So what we are trying to bring you too is that no matter what these person trying to make a profit will always exist. Then at time these person are tru collector too trying to gather money to buy more cards of the player they collect. 1/1 are wanted by many and the market law of availability and demand apply to our hobby as well.

This is why I do not hunt 1/1 because I know I rather have 3 or 4 lower print run sick cards then just that one 1/1. Eventually you will find one at a reasonable price. Maybe a member that replied here in this post will think of you and often it so much easier to get a good deal here then on ebay when you know the members.

I understand how you feel because all collector pass in this phase, then, eventually, we understand the market and accept the fact they are hard to get. So it just make it easier to let them pass if you can't afford it.

I have 1 1/1 from a set of Carey price and 2 card show 1/1. I am please with that and if I can get get more, fine. But I still prefer get maybe 2 or 3 /10 really nice card of him then getting just one 1/1 that I would pay to high.

In the end, sharks were always in the hobby and will always have sharks when money can be made, just avoid them and pass to the next auction. That is what we are trying to bring you to understand. It make the hobby more enjoyable.

[Yzerfan]

Thank you Luke, and I appreciate it. I originally went after the 1/1 show stamp because I knew that it would be less desirable to other collectors. I think that the /9 version is more desirable to other collectors because it doesn't have the little stamp on it. I don't really care about the stamp because in all reality it is the same as the /9 version. I just thought that it was my chance to get that card at an affordable price.

[razzamaztaz]

I have to agree with Luke, you have to remember some actually do it for a job yes. All hobbies got such folks that do it as a job, if there's money to be made there's always a bunch who try it out.

I say there's another kind that is worse though, and unfortunately many many belong to this group: the kind who (in trades) want 50-80% more than what a card is worth, but want to give 50-80% less than what a card is worth, all the time. Ok, nothing wrong with trying now and then to get more than average value, but it's constant and worst part is when you point it out with cold hard facts of finished sales it gets shrugged off or they try to talk it away. I could start listing name after name after name who does this, and I'm starting to realise it's gone so far there's almost no point in trading anymore. It's sad I personally end up having to sell most my cards to then buy others cause trading is hopeless. Takes away the fun.

[Fred Bear]

I have to agree with Luke, you have to remember some actually do it for a job yes. All hobbies got such folks that do it as a job, if there's money to be made there's always a bunch who try it out.

I say there's another kind that is worse though, and unfortunately many many belong to this group: the kind who (in trades) want 50-80% more than what a card is worth, but want to give 50-80% less than what a card is worth, all the time. Ok, nothing wrong with trying now and then to get more than average value, but it's constant and worst part is when you point it out with cold hard facts of finished sales it gets shrugged off or they try to talk it away. I could start listing name after name after name who does this, and I'm starting to realise it's gone so far there's almost no point in trading anymore. It's sad I personally end up having to sell most my cards to then buy others cause trading is hopeless. Takes away the fun.

There are definitely collectors who are tough negotiators, no question! We have to remember, though, 'What gets rewarded gets repeated.' These guys act like this because it works for them. I'm amazed sometimes at how I'm talked to and treated by people on the forums with 100s of feedback. I wonder how they ever get a deal done railroading their opinion and attempting to force someone into a situation they would never agree to, but... if it works... they'll stick to it and propagate the behavior.

Another key is to depersonalize negotiations. Unless its blatant (I have 'closed' negotiations when I think someone crosses a line and makes it personal), it's not about you or I, it's about getting the best deal possible for a piece of cardboard. We have to be willing to walk away on either side... I've had traders ask for a price on a card, I'll give it, and I get a response - 'Hard to justify $25 dlvd when the last one sold on eBay for $16.' What they aren't saying is that they are referring to 1 auction, which had $6 shipping, and not the 3 previous BIN sales at $28 dlvd, $30 dlvd & $35 dlvd. If I'm not willing to say, 'Sorry. That's my price.' It's on me, not them. By the same token, I've asked for pricing and gotten a response, 'I can do $30 dlvd for the two' on cards each with over 10-15 listings each ending at $3-5 plus shipping (or the occasional $10-12 dlvd BIN)... I've found, you're not going to convince them to take $10 + shipping for cards they want $30 for, so it's best to walk away. If I can't, it's my own fault for banging my head against the wall.

You're right, it's not fun, but it's an unfortunate cost of doing business in the hobby and its one aspect the internet doesn't help. Anonymity seems to promote the 'anti-social' behaviors. I don't think anyone would walk up to a collector at a show and offer them $5 for a card the dealers are selling for $50-60, but you get it all the time on the internet...

[razzamaztaz]

Ok that people want more for a 1/1 or very rare card, even if they did a bargain and bought a 1/1 for, say, $50, there's nothing to say it ain't worth 4 times that much another time, so I get that, no problem. But when you can show several sales in the similar range and yet get nonsense arguments back it's silly. To overvalue your cards - that is not wrong, many cards sell for too low, and you want more. But the combined problem is folks who also undervalue *your* cards. I often respond with "but if you count yours like that, I should upgrade my value too then I guess", and then they don't reply. That's what annoys me, overvalue is fine, up top each and everyone, but don't grossly undervalue the other trader's cards at the same time.

I know there's some quite (in)famous big traders who does it hard and tough, but in my experience 80% of the traders do it now, or maybe I have bad luck. Sometimes I get a real big tradebait cause I think I'll do some fun trading, it usually ends with selling it, cause no one (or few) seems do to any fair trading.