Re-calibrating... Am I asking too much?

[Fred Bear]

I'm not much of one in asking for help on valuing my cards or opinions on trades. I feel both are fairly personal and opinion based and are left up to what an individual is comfortable with, but every now and then, I think it's good to re-calibrate and make sure your opinions aren't way out there beyond left field... Here's my predicament...

I was approached for a potential trade on a card I have for sale (this occurred on another site). I explained that I am currently only trading for items on my want list. 'TRADER' came back with an offer that actually included items on my want list! So I did some digging. The card he wants has sale values at - $42, $50, $60, $65, $75, $80, $125 (historical from worthpoint). Nothing recently sold or even currently listed. BV is, of course, low compared to these values and is under $100. His initial list included, 3 Limited base, 1 Limited phenom, 1 Red Wings auto and he had told me about another Red Wings auto (but he indicated that he wouldn't trade that one 'with the other cards'). All of the base can be found on eBay for $1 ea or in lots for less. The Phenom he offered regularly sells in the $2-3 range and the Red Wings auto is a RC which has sold for ~$2-8. The other Wings card was a star /25 and regularly sells in the $20-25 range.

I explained that based on the information I had, I would probably need more to make the trade work (SV $42-125 vs SV $27-39 was not going to work for me). I checked his trade list and found three more cards - a $10 SV PC Limited Phenom, a $5 SV PC card, and a $10-15 SV trader. I felt that SV $52-69 was fair for my card - the Red Wings auto was a 'trade filler' rather than a priority and the two traders have a range where I am guaranteed some value back with a potential upside. So, I added those and got an immediate 'no-way' response. He had the second Phenom I added as a SV $20 and the other PC card at SV $10. I explained and showed my data on it and he came back with everything but the $10-15 trader.

I feel that SV $42-54 spread over 8 cards is too little for a card which has, on its own sold for as much as $125 (first one to go live). [I've basically said, sorry we can't make this work]

Am I off base in my request? [I know I'm a 'tough' trader sometimes, but I feel like I'm looking at good numbers. If I sold my card, I could easily buy most of what I want out of the group I'm getting back. Likely with money left over by NOT picking up the additional traders.]

He has since come back with a request to replace the $10-15 trader because he has 'other interest' in that one, but he would likely make the deal now, with that card replaced... This brings up my next question...

Am I setting myself up to never see any of these cards? [He's changed his mind and gone along with me every step. Is it because he has no intention of shipping me anything? I hate to suggest it... but there's always that protective voice in the back of my head...]


I'd love to hear some other thoughts and opinions! Thanks.

[Tivo32]

I've experienced this in collecting other sports and trying to trade those sports (football mainly) but it seems like it's starting to spread into hockey collecting as well. There are traders and it seems to be happening with a bit more frequency who are always looking to trade up. No matter if you come to them or they come to you, they want to trade up. And if they can use BV to gain an edge they use that. If it's SV, they use that. They'll do whatever they can to gain the edge and trade up in their favor. It can be very frustrating.

[flopfish]

Only do a deal that you are satisfied with. If something is saying to avoid it, avoid it. Your gut instinct is the best thing in life :P It's a tough choice, but selling and buying with some cash left over is always a safer option.

[Wickabee]

Quick question. When you say "historically" on those values of your card, do the prices go up as you go farther back the way you've listed? Like, the first price is (for example) July, the second June, the third May, etc?
If so, it seems to have dropped exponentially over time. As such, I think calling it a $42-$125 is a little generous on the evaluation. If it were me, and depending on actual dates of sales, I would probably call it a $42-$75 card. In that case, you're still giving more than you're getting dollarwise, but I'm wondering if you're not expecting a little much from a card that dropped and dropped and dropped, probably due to the people who want it getting it and, each time, there being one less person going after it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling you how to price your cards by any means. I'm of the mind that I may disagree with what some people want for their cards, I may even laugh, but for all I know, if they hold out long enough they may find that one person who wants it that badly and more power to them for it. I'm just thinking (and again, I don't know the card, dates, etc) your evaluation of the card might be a little high, but not so high that asking for a little more in SV coming back is out of line.

[Fred Bear]

Quick question. When you say "historically" on those values of your card, do the prices go up as you go farther back the way you've listed? Like, the first price is (for example) July, the second June, the third May, etc?
If so, it seems to have dropped exponentially over time. As such, I think calling it a $42-$125 is a little generous on the evaluation. If it were me, and depending on actual dates of sales, I would probably call it a $42-$75 card. In that case, you're still giving more than you're getting dollarwise, but I'm wondering if you're not expecting a little much from a card that dropped and dropped and dropped, probably due to the people who want it getting it and, each time, there being one less person going after it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling you how to price your cards by any means. I'm of the mind that I may disagree with what some people want for their cards, I may even laugh, but for all I know, if they hold out long enough they may find that one person who wants it that badly and more power to them for it. I'm just thinking (and again, I don't know the card, dates, etc) your evaluation of the card might be a little high, but not so high that asking for a little more in SV coming back is out of line.

I appreciate your comments and that's really what I was asking for! [Thanks to everyone for the comments and suggestions - all very helpful]

Those were not in a timeline order at all. The $42 was not the most recent and the $125 was not the oldest. It was originally a redemption, which two of the sales were for, and the $125 was the first 'live' copy that a sale is recorded for. I won't argue that I don't value my cards a little towards the high side (I kind of feel like you have to at least start there...), but I'm more than willing to listen to reason, which is what really brought this all about. I wanted to make sure that I'm not so off base to come across as offensive.

I've heard some pretty good stories over the course of the day and it helps put things in perspective. As I said initially, I'm ok with the prices I'm asking and how I handle myself in a trade, but I feel like sometimes it's good to draw on others experiences to see if I'm expecting something out there or unreasonable. It's easy to say it's not unreasonable, but, after hitting a dry spell in trading and selling, you sometimes wonder and second guess yourself...

Thanks again for all the responses and, please, continue to share your advice!

[htram9]

I've experienced this in collecting other sports and trying to trade those sports (football mainly) but it seems like it's starting to spread into hockey collecting as well. There are traders and it seems to be happening with a bit more frequency who are always looking to trade up. No matter if you come to them or they come to you, they want to trade up. And if they can use BV to gain an edge they use that. If it's SV, they use that. They'll do whatever they can to gain the edge and trade up in their favor. It can be very frustrating.

This is so true sadly. I need 4 base cards I believe (maybe 3) to have all base cards of my main PC. I had a guy who had all 3 or 4, and he would ONLY trade for a GU or sell it to me for 5 shipped. For base cards? The last 6 trade communications I've had for my PC, all went no where because people wanted PC stuff, and their PC happens to be high-end people and I won't trade a high-end card for a common insert. I miss the days where people would trade to help PC's no matter if they got PC back or not.

OP, I can't blame you for being a little upset. It seems like the typical trader trying to win a deal.

[Wickabee]

I appreciate your comments and that's really what I was asking for! [Thanks to everyone for the comments and suggestions - all very helpful]

Those were not in a timeline order at all. The $42 was not the most recent and the $125 was not the oldest. It was originally a redemption, which two of the sales were for, and the $125 was the first 'live' copy that a sale is recorded for. I won't argue that I don't value my cards a little towards the high side (I kind of feel like you have to at least start there...), but I'm more than willing to listen to reason, which is what really brought this all about. I wanted to make sure that I'm not so off base to come across as offensive.

I've heard some pretty good stories over the course of the day and it helps put things in perspective. As I said initially, I'm ok with the prices I'm asking and how I handle myself in a trade, but I feel like sometimes it's good to draw on others experiences to see if I'm expecting something out there or unreasonable. It's easy to say it's not unreasonable, but, after hitting a dry spell in trading and selling, you sometimes wonder and second guess yourself...

Thanks again for all the responses and, please, continue to share your advice!

Well that would change things. I generally average it out by sales in the last month or, if none or only one or a couple are available in the past month, then the last 10, or if there's only a couple sales I can find overall, I average those out. Basically, sales from a long time ago are completely irrelevant to me is my point. It's a matter of what one considers a "long" time.

[Fred Bear]

Figured I'd give everyone a quick update on how it all ended...

I offered to swap out the card he wanted to with one of two others from his trade list... not as easy for me to trade, but cards with similar value. He, of course, balked at it and wanted me to include a $15 BV card with a SV of $10-15... I said no and that we were done, thanks for his time. He PMs back and says he'll do it - the 9 cards for the 1. I was at work when I got that one and I try not to spend too much 'work time' on forums, so I figured I'd get back to him tonight when I got home... Then at 3pm, I get the... 'Found one on eBay for $10 less than you wanted. I no longer need yours.'

Awesome guy...

[htram9]

Figured I'd give everyone a quick update on how it all ended...

I offered to swap out the card he wanted to with one of two others from his trade list... not as easy for me to trade, but cards with similar value. He, of course, balked at it and wanted me to include a $15 BV card with a SV of $10-15... I said no and that we were done, thanks for his time. He PMs back and says he'll do it - the 9 cards for the 1. I was at work when I got that one and I try not to spend too much 'work time' on forums, so I figured I'd get back to him tonight when I got home... Then at 3pm, I get the... 'Found one on eBay for $10 less than you wanted. I no longer need yours.'

Awesome guy...

So he was sending you 9 cards for 1? Shouldn't YOU be getting a little in your favor? Guy seems like a work. Sorry for the hassle.

[Tivo32]

That is incredibly frustrating. Sorry. :(