To whom it may concern

[9nick0]

ha ha ha, awesome, thanks for all the feedback

[sense6]

Oh by the way, your qutoe was by Sir Isaac Newton in a letter he wrote to fellow English scientist Robert Hooke that was dated 5 February in either 1675 or 1676. This phrase was actually quite commonly used by authors and thinkers of the Middle Ages and Rennaissance. Though Newton's reference is probably the best known today, 12th century theologian and author John of Salisbury was another well-known source of the phrase. "We are like dwarfs sitting on the shoulders of giants. We see more, and things that are more distant, than they did, not because our sight is superior or because we are taller than they, but because they raise us up, and by their great stature add to ours."
This quote appeared in a religious book called The Metalogicon that was written by John in 1159. However, John's thought was indeed inspired by an earlier Christian thinker named Bernard of Chartres. John was born in France and studied there during the early 12th century. It is likely that John learned the phrase at this time, for he later moved to England where he continued his theologic research. The only example of Bernard's quote that I've come across thus far was from Robert Merton's book On the Shoulders of Giants. Merton quotes Bernard as saying, in about 1130:
"We are like dwarfs standing [or sitting] upon the shoulders of giants, and so able to see more and see farther than the ancients."
In addition, Merton goes on to point out that at least the idea Bernard was attempting to convey goes back to a 6th century grammarian named Priscian, who wrote:
"The younger the scholars, the more sharp-sighted."
Clearly, the basic idea of these thoughts is that modern researchers owe much to the knowledge that earlier scientists have discovered. While many believe that was the sentiment being expressed by Newton in his letter to Hooke, some researchers have suggested that he was actually using the phrase "on the shoulders of giants" as a veiled insult of Robert Hooke, who was a rather short man. Newton had a reputation as somewhat of a petty and vindictive man whose ego clashed with those of his rivals in the scientific and mathematical communities. One of these rivals was Robert Hooke, who had been involved in a long-running fued with Newton over which one had discovered the inverse square law. Although Newton's letter to Hooke appeared courteous on the surface, some historians have concluded that he cleverly employed the phrase "on the shoulders of giants" to ridicule Hooke's lack of physical stature and imply that he lacked intellectual stature as well.
In any event, Newton may have borrowed the phrase "on the shoulders of giants" from earlier writers, but the specific quote that is referenced on our site is his and his alone. The phrase is indeed a commonly cited one, as the following examples illustrate.

"We are like dwarfs standing [or sitting] upon the shoulders of giants, and so able to see more and see farther than the ancients."
- Bernard of Chartres, circa 1130
"Bernard of Chartres used to say that we are like dwarfs on the shoulders of giants, so that we can see more than they, and things at a greater distance, not by virtue of any sharpness on sight on our part, or any physical distinction, but because we are carried high and raised up by their giant size."
- John of Salisbury, Metalogicon, 1159
"A dwarf standing on the shoulders of a giant may see farther than a giant himself."
- Robert Burton, The Anatomy of Melancholy, 1621
"Dwarfs on the shoulders of giants see further than the giants themselves."
- Stella Didacus, Eximii verbi divini CONCIONATORIS ORDINNIS MINORUM Regularis Observantiae, 1622
"A dwarf on a giant's shoulders sees farther of the two."
- George Herbert, Jacula Prudentum, 1651
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."
- Isaac Newton, letter to Robert Hooke, 1676
"Newton won the race in part because, as he put it, he had stood on the shoulders of giants and in part because he just happened to be the biggest giant of them all."
- Alan Cromer, Uncommon Sense: The Heretical Nature of Science, 1993
"In the sciences, we are now uniquely privileged to sit side by side with the giants on whose shoulders we stand."
- Gerald Holton
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my shoulders."
- Hal Abelson
Such commonality in thoughts is not at all unique to this phrase alone. Consider the following, somewhat more amusing example as well.
"I think, therefore I am."
- René Descartes, Le Discours de la Mèthode, 1637
"I am, therefore I think."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
"I think that I think, therefore, I think that I am."
- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary, 1911
"I think I am. Therefore, I am . . . I think."
- George Carlin
"I don't think, so, therefore I'm probably not."
- anonymous
"I think, therefore I am. But I'm micromanaged, therefore I am not."
- Scott Adams, Dilbert comic strip, 1997
"On the shoulder of giants" has generated a great deal of interest in recent years, particularly after Great Britain included the phrase "Standing on the Shoulders of Giants" on the edge of its £2 coin starting in 1997. A new coin of the series is released every year, each one celebrating a significant contribution to science made by a British citizen. For a rather entertaining look at the origins and use of the phrase throughout history, Robert Merton's On the Shoulders of Giants is an excellent read.


Thanks

[9nick0]

wow, sounds like a scholarly fellow, that was awesome, at first I thought it might have been a "google search and response", but I don't think so, what are you doing trading cards!!! Go invent something. Just kidding.

[sense6]

Well to be compleatly honest with you I did know it was Newton because I did a paper on him back in the day but all that other stuff was from a website I had no idea about the religious book called The Metalogicon and didnt know about the variations on the quote. So I guess I want to thank you because I actually learned something about that quote.

Take care!

[9nick0]

you had me fooled, I thought you were just rattling off all of that like it was common knowledge to you. I am glad you learned something, I just learned a bunch too from your post. I see the quote on alot of different things, its a catchy phrase

[sense6]

Yeah definatly is I have a poster from SB 35 it has Ray Lewis standing on a "Giants" player and it has that quote on it. Kind of corny but funny nevertheless!

[9nick0]

Another incident: This just happened. I recieved some cards on a trade, they were 80 topps payton, 81 hampton rc, 84 dent rc, the cards are in excellent (as in below near mint) condition. I nicely wrote the person I traded with, explained to them they needed to specify on the condition of cards they trade, and told him I would STILL leave a positive feedback for him, just let people know the condition of the cards. He replies back, trying to cut down my cards to the best of his ability, when all I was trying to do was let him know, I wasn't impressed with the deal. I wasn't demanding my cards back, even though I got half the value of trade that I was expecting, you would think he would want to give a small apology. Instead he gets all defensive. He'll probably leave a negative feedback for me, even though I am the one who is getting screwed here.
On my very first trade on here, I sent a bunch of stuff to a very good trader, a couple days passed, and the trader PM'd me letting me know that although he didnt notice it at first, one of the cards I sent him had a small crease in it. He asked if there was anything I could do about it, I took his word, sent him the difference in cards. I have no idea if I was being conned, the card looked sharp to me, but he was nice about, and we came to an agreement. And ofcourse I apologized, I didn't mean to send sub-par cards.

[meuandthelot]

Actually this has worked itself out just fine. It is or can be VERY hard to express yourself typing...No facial expression, tone change voice, etc...

The main point that came from this, communication is KEY.
In most instances use of the PM feature works, if that doesn't work to both(or more) parties satisfaction ask someone (most preferably a neutral person on SCF leader list to "Read/Listen to" the differences.

PS: SCF has implemented the various features(Based on everyones input/suggestions) to help ensure trades go as smooth as possible. A safer trading platform has ALWAYS been the intent.
If something happens on a trade that needs moderation simply use the "Dispute" feature, and include your concerns.

[fact81]

Now... LEts all get together and go bowling:)

Rob

[elway4ever]

ya........I am new too.........and I know for a while I wasn't very pleased with some of the things people were syaing (but then again i could have been a little nicer and calmer) but we just all need to have fun with this and not let that 'anger' or maybe a better word 'disagreement' create conflicts and quarrels

A couple members and I have had a couple of those 'quarrels' but we have made up and now are cool again and making trades!