Evidence vs. Faith.

[Wickabee]

P.S. The atheist stance is, by definition "Nothing did it." By calling yourself an atheist, you claim that is your belief. If that's not your belief, you'r lying to everyone.

[shrewsbury]

alex, do you expect the average religious person to have all the answers about their religion?

do you expect the average person who agrees with the Big Bang to know all about it or know where it came from?
do you expect a life scientist to know where life began? and if so, can they "show" you or just explain it?

there are numerous people who are religious, but a Christian does not have to know the NT word for word to consider themselves a Christian.

what you want is answers from people who give great thought and concern to these questions.

Many of them are very mixed on god, is it the "holy trinity" is it just one? What is his nature? Why does he do the things that he does?

where did the universe come from? what is its nature? why does it behave like it does?

most people would not know the exact answers you are looking for.

does this make their beliefs less likely? no, just less educated. which some people do not have the time, resources, or even care to be "educated". this does not make them dumb, just dedicated at a different level, and have other priorities in life.

Law of identity.....most people can't properly define what god is.....especially Christians.

Many of them are very mixed on god, is it the "holy trinity" is it just one? What is his nature? Why does he do the things that he does?

Law of non-contradiction.....God contradicts himself so many times in the bible there are too many examples, but a few would be the argument of evil and the problem with omnipotence.

Law of excluded middle.....this is the one that god really violates..."He is everywhere and nowhere", "he is the beginning and the end", etc.

if you really took the time to learn these answers, with an open mind, you would find there are many with answers that are just as logical as any hypothesis.
I think you would find religion interesting, not dumb, if you gave it the open mindedness, time, effort, and desire as you have for science.

[GroundSupport]

I recommend watching Anceint Aliens on History. Some of it is off but there is some good stuff IMO.

[JustAlex]

That's a flat out lie. It's there for everyone to see. You knew what you were saying, and you said it. Own it. Don't be a coward.

Your view of why you believe in god is EXACTLY like that of MANY theists.

You believe in god because you have no other entity or rationale for why life and the universe exists.

That's all there is to it.

Thing is, that wasn't my reasoning. That was the reasoning YOU placed on my words through your preconceived notions of what I am, that being a theist, so right wing conservative Christian. I never, at all said, "I don't know, so God did it", that was your idea. Where did it come from? Why did you attribute it to me?

Because, that's pretty much what you said:

life is a complete mystery to us....I don't deny the evidence, but I fail to see where it disproves God, or proves God is unnecessary for this to work.

To you life is mysterious (Unknown), and the best rationale for it (In your mind) is that god made life and the universe.

That is the textbook definition of "The argument from ignorance".


If I'm wrong, then maybe you should elaborate a little better why you believe in god....but then again you said "It's my damn business"....so you don't have to answer.

[JustAlex]

P.S. The atheist stance is, by definition "Nothing did it." By calling yourself an atheist, you claim that is your belief. If that's not your belief, you'r lying to everyone.

No.

By definition it's that the person doesn't believe in god....that person can believe Aliens created the universe or brought life to earth....that person can believe in any other being except god to attribute the "creation" of the universe and the answer to how life came about.

[Wickabee]

No.

By definition it's that the person doesn't believe in god....that person can believe Aliens created the universe or brought life to earth....that person can believe in any other being except god to attribute the "creation" of the universe and the answer to how life came about.

Fair enough, I change it to "Not God did it." There's still the same amount of evidence in both cases.

But you know, I think I'm done in this thread. The title doesn't even make sense.

As soon as there is evidence, faith cannot exist. When evidence is gone, faith is possible. You're comparing apples and trucks here. That tells me you don't understand either concept even at its basest level.

[Wickabee]

Your view of why you believe in god is EXACTLY like that of MANY theists.

And I know what you think of other theists, even though I know you know I'm not like the people you speak of. Yet here you are, comparing me to them, twice without understanding what I said.

You believe in god because you have no other entity or rationale for why life and the universe exists.

No, I believe in God because it makes sense to me. I've said this to you a bunch of times. Stop ignoring it. It makes you ignorant.

That's all there is to it.

Your ignorance of me? I guess that is all there is.

Because, that's pretty much what you said:

Is it? OPr did it require an explanation which you ignored. Go back and read without your prejudice.

To you life is mysterious (Unknown), and the best rationale for it (In your mind) is that god made life and the universe.

Not at all. Life is pretty simple and clear cut. Don't be a ™™™™. That's what the rules of every major religion and belief system ultimately say. Just because YOU got caught up in all the glitz of the old men trying to make money, don't you dare to think I have.

That is the textbook definition of "The argument from ignorance".

No, but yours is the textbook definition of "ignorance".

If I'm wrong, then maybe you should elaborate a little better why you believe in god....but then again you said "It's my damn business"....so you don't have to answer.

I did, you ignored it, showing the fact that you will be deliberately ignorant to further your argument which is based on assumption and prejudice you actually know is false. In short, you are the single worst type of person when you talk religion.

[JustAlex]

No, I believe in God because it makes sense to me. I've said this to you a bunch of times. Stop ignoring it. It makes you ignorant.

Ok, how does it make sense to you?

If it makes sense to you, it should make sense to someone else, right?

Not at all. Life is pretty simple and clear cut. Don't be a ™™™™. That's what the rules of every major religion and belief system ultimately say. Just because YOU got caught up in all the glitz of the old men trying to make money, don't you dare to think I have.

YOU said life is mysterious......

To me life isn't that all mysterious.

We are a product of millions of years of evolution.....how life came to be on this planet is still unknown, but abiogenesis makes sense to me, we just haven't worked it out completely.

I did, you ignored it, showing the fact that you will be deliberately ignorant to further your argument which is based on assumption and prejudice you actually know is false. In short, you are the single worst type of person when you talk religion.

You said you believe in god because the evidence (scientific evidence) hasn't disproved god, once again.....this is still an argument from ignorance.

Let me define "the argument from ignorance" and you tell me if it's consistent with your beliefs or not....

"claims the truth of a premise is based on the fact that it has not been proven false, or that a premise is false because it has not been proven true."

Earlier you said this:

I don't deny the evidence, but I fail to see where it disproves God, or proves God is unnecessary for this to work.

YOU are being consistent with the "argument from ignorance"....it's right there in black and white.....and red.

[JustAlex]

Going back on topic.....I didn't get to answer this, so I will now.

Your theory is flawed sir. There are many, many instances in life where we have faith without evidence.

Your analogy was a bad one, just like Habs described.

That wasn't faith....it was hope.

In real life, faith is simply not necessary to function, in fact it could be a bad way to function on a daily basis.

Imagine if you drove your car based on faith instead of evidence.

That little light that says your brakes need fixing (That's EVIDENCE that you should do something about it), but don't worry, just have faith that the problem is either not real or it will fix itself.....you think this would be a good way to live life?

Revolving your life around faith makes it complicated, revolving it around evidence is not only easier but much more gratifying.

Want to know the ironic part? You (as in JustAlex) have faith...you have faith that there is no god. You have zero undeniable proof that there is no such thing as Elohim, Allah or even Lucifer. You can no more prove that there isn't a god than they can prove that there is. As much as you hate people who have faith that there is a god, you are no different from them except that your faith is counter to theirs.

I hate people that have faith in god?

I must hate my parents, my siblings, 99% of ALL my friends, and the overwhelming majority of people I come in contact on a daily basis.

Anyways, No Duane, I don't have faith that there is no god, because I don't make such a claim.

Belief and knowledge are two very different things.

[Wickabee]

Life is mysterious because of its simplicity. We seek the forest, ignoring the fact there is only trees. The forest is simple. Don't be a ™™™™.

I will admit vaguery on that.

Also, you forgot the second part, where I see God or some such thing as necessary to the entire situation. But you like to be ignorant, don't you?

(ignorance being a state of deliberate ignoring of things.