The Better D-Man

[Blmdear]

Has nothing to do with stats. If it did, Karlsson would be the favorite. I agree with WeberCollectors assessment of Weber. I think Weber is a true defenseman. Not once have I knocked his play. Disagree 100% that you could say the same about Karlsson. As I said before, he has never been able to play D. He is a scorer and that's it. And as far as Keith, Subban, Yandle, Pietrangelo, Suter.....I don't care what team they are on, Im looking at HOW THEY PLAY THEIR POSITION. Im not looking at stats but yes, it helps a little on the scoring end of things I will agree. If we want to compare D men on similar teams I will go as far as putting Ekman-Larsson and Yandle into the mix as well. All im stating is that Karlsson has never been a true D man and he never will be.

Exactly, same thing rings true for Karlsson. But I suppose it's much easier to just blindly look at stats and say that the guy at the top is the best.

[cygnusx1]

OK, give 5 reasons why he is going to win. Most points is not a valid point also.

If you have to give 5 reasons, why wouldn't most points matter? Seems like at least 20% of a player's value....

[Blmdear]

The James Norris Memorial Trophy is awarded annually to the National Hockey League's top "defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position".^[

Not Karlsson.........Sorry. I would give this to Weber without a problem.

OK, give 5 reasons why he is going to win. Most points is not a valid point also.

[Blmdear]

I will give one why he is not going to win. The James Norris Memorial Trophy is awarded annually to the National Hockey League's top "defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position".

If you have to give 5 reasons, why wouldn't most points matter? Seems like at least 20% of a player's value....

[cygnusx1]

Has nothing to do with stats. If it did, Karlsson would be the favorite. I agree with WeberCollectors assessment of Weber. I think Weber is a true defenseman. Not once have I knocked his play. Disagree 100% that you could say the same about Karlsson. As I said before, he has never been able to play D. He is a scorer and that's it. And as far as Keith, Subban, Yandle, Pietrangelo, Suter.....I don't care what team they are on, Im looking at HOW THEY PLAY THEIR POSITION. Im not looking at stats but yes, it helps a little on the scoring end of things I will agree. If we want to compare D men on similar teams I will go as far as putting Ekman-Larsson and Yandle into the mix as well. All im stating is that Karlsson has never been a true D man and he never will be.

Never been able to play defense? Come on, you have to realize you're exaggerating that pretty badly. No, defense is not his strongest point. But you make it sound like he makes a whole bunch of terrible plays every single game. The guy has great positioning, and routinely pokes the puck off another player's stick or just outright steals it away from him. In fact, he's 3rd among defensemen in takeaways. The closest to him out of any of the guys you've mentioned is Duncan Keith, who is 10 behind Karlsson. All the others have half the amount Karlsson does or less.

As well, one of your examples of a good d-man was Subban, who makes a number of questionable plays as well.

[cygnusx1]

I will give one why he is not going to win. The James Norris Memorial Trophy is awarded annually to the National Hockey League's top "defense player who demonstrates throughout the season the greatest all-round ability in the position".

Ok, highlight one part (defense player) and completely gloss over another part (all-round ability)....

Offense would not be even 20% of the best all-round ability? So Andrew MacDonald, Rob Scuderi, Greg Zanon, Barrett Jackman, etc. should have won the previous 10 Norris trophies.

[Blmdear]

Ok, highlight one part (defense player) and completely gloss over another part (all-round ability)....

Offense would not be even 20% of the best all-round ability? So Andrew MacDonald, Rob Scuderi, Greg Zanon, Barrett Jackman, etc. should have won the previous 10 Norris trophies.

I never said offense wouldn't be at least 20%. The thing is they are looking at best all around. Scoring and defense.

[cygnusx1]

I never said offense wouldn't be at least 20%. The thing is they are looking at best all around. Scoring and defense.

You were quoting me asking why 1 of the 5 reasons could not be offense.....

[Blmdear]

Never been able to play defense? Come on, you have to realize you're exaggerating that pretty badly. No, defense is not his strongest point. But you make it sound like he makes a whole bunch of terrible plays every single game. The guy has great positioning, and routinely pokes the puck off another player's stick or just outright steals it away from him. In fact, he's 3rd among defensemen in takeaways. The closest to him out of any of the guys you've mentioned is Duncan Keith, who is 10 behind Karlsson. All the others have half the amount Karlsson does or less.

As well, one of your examples of a good d-man was Subban, who makes a number of questionable plays as well.

I have seen Karlsson play many times and yes, he does make some great plays but yes, he does take many chances and is on the losing end quite often. If they actually kept a stat like takeaway attempts you would see that he would lead the league by a large margin. This is where stats are misleading. That's why we don't go by stats..........right? I may have made Karlsson sound a lot worse than he is but I was just trying to get a point across. If he wins the Norris this year, In my opinion it would be a disgrace.

[cygnusx1]

I have seen Karlsson play many times and yes, he does make some great plays but yes, he does take many chances and is on the losing end quite often. If they actually kept a stat like takeaway attempts you would see that he would lead the league by a large margin. This is where stats are misleading. That's why we don't go by stats..........right? I may have made Karlsson sound a lot worse than he is but I was just trying to get a point across. If he wins the Norris this year, In my opinion it would be a disgrace.

There, I can agree with that. Maybe not a disgrace, but he doesn't deserve to win it this year. I don't think many people have been seeing him as a candidate this year anyways.